Reasonable Long Term Hopes

25Hz wrote:Sounds like some federal grants need to be allocated to newtown re-activation to get it going, including inspecting the line to draw up a list of needed improvements to get it up to the point of new tracks & signals.

If you build it, they will ride.....

SEPTA will be running Maglev's before Newtown service grants of any kind are allocated.

Suburban Station wrote:

FatPants wrote:I think the larger point stands, regardless of whether I accidentally located Paoli in Montco.

so you meant chester and the paoli station project?
Regarding unification behind a project, I blame chester county. they've been bizarrely obsessed with extending septa to atglen at the expense of service to WC and more importantly Phoenixville. Phoenixville as you know is on the Reading/Pottstown route. If Chester county put a reasonable amount of priority on service to Phoenixville its support would coincide with montco
the city is always looking in the wrong places with bizarre routes like the cultural corridor and navy yard via the waterfront instead of useful places with established ridership. it also puts little of its own skin in the game

Agreed re: Chester County's abdication of responsibility wrt Phoenixville. It's clear at this point that Montco does not have the oomph to get Pottstown done on its own; Chester County could provide a serious boost, to the benefit of one of its own booming and popular centers, but it hasn't yet and shows no signs of doing so.

I'd quibble with the characterization of the city's priorities. The "cultural corridor" (a terrible branding for BRT on the City Branch) would have higher ridership that any of the suburban rail projects, even if it was just a rerouting of 32, 38, and 48. Ditto the Broad Street Line to the Navy Yard. The criticism that the city doesn't contribute enough of its own money is mostly fair, although it also applies to the counties, and city and suburb alike are all strapped for cash.

The "Cultural Corridor" route(s) would get very high ridership and be very popular with students and visitors. But I think it would get even better ridership if it were light rail instead of BRT. Yes, it would cost more to construct, but with trolley tracks at both ends of the proposed routing (Route 15 tracks on Girard Ave and currently-unused Route 23 tracks on 11th and 12th streets) and SEPTA now receiving additional funding from the state, the City and SEPTA should really try to go "the extra mile" on this project.

SEPTA will be running Newtown service before any Maglev service grants are allocated. It's a project long overdue, like so many others.

#5 - Dyre Ave wrote:The "Cultural Corridor" route(s) would get very high ridership and be very popular with students and visitors. But I think it would get even better ridership if it were light rail instead of BRT. Yes, it would cost more to construct, but with trolley tracks at both ends of the proposed routing (Route 15 tracks on Girard Ave and currently-unused Route 23 tracks on 11th and 12th streets) and SEPTA now receiving additional funding from the state, the City and SEPTA should really try to go "the extra mile" on this project.

the cultural corridor was originally studied as a rail project and the projected ridership was abysmal. a busway project would be grat, the brt project is foolish. why do we need specialized buses for a route that would have low ridership? 4k people a day is nothing for a city bus route. the city would be bar better served by simply putting existing buses in it like the 27,44,48,124 etc. we're talking about a city that is unwilling to even pony up funds to split the 23 up so that it isn't so completely unreliable. problems insouth philly? bus is late in germantown, problems in center city? bus is late in mt airy. it also takes incredibly long for delays to ripple through the schedule. once the bus is late its gets crowded and continues to lose time all the way through germantown. shorter routes=more reliable

Suburban Station wrote:

#5 - Dyre Ave wrote:The "Cultural Corridor" route(s) would get very high ridership and be very popular with students and visitors. But I think it would get even better ridership if it were light rail instead of BRT. Yes, it would cost more to construct, but with trolley tracks at both ends of the proposed routing (Route 15 tracks on Girard Ave and currently-unused Route 23 tracks on 11th and 12th streets) and SEPTA now receiving additional funding from the state, the City and SEPTA should really try to go "the extra mile" on this project.

the cultural corridor was originally studied as a rail project and the projected ridership was abysmal. a busway project would be grat, the brt project is foolish. why do we need specialized buses for a route that would have low ridership? 4k people a day is nothing for a city bus route. the city would be bar better served by simply putting existing buses in it like the 27,44,48,124 etc. we're talking about a city that is unwilling to even pony up funds to split the 23 up so that it isn't so completely unreliable. problems insouth philly? bus is late in germantown, problems in center city? bus is late in mt airy. it also takes incredibly long for delays to ripple through the schedule. once the bus is late its gets crowded and continues to lose time all the way through germantown. shorter routes=more reliable

When was it studied? Was it a reputable study by a reputable firm? Do you have a copy of the study?

I would think that this "ridership" is simply counting existing ridership on those bus routes. How else would rerouting a few bus routes for several blocks to a private ROW increase ridership more than an entire heavy rail branch line?

FatPants wrote:...

When was it studied? Was it a reputable study by a reputable firm? Do you have a copy of the study?

It was studied under the street administration as an offshoot of the stillborn SVM project...perhaps 2004? as surprising as it may be, I did not keep a copy of the study. at the time it just seemed like another ill thought out political proposal doomed for failure. Do you think that 4000 riders is too low?

SCB2525 wrote:I would think that this "ridership" is simply counting existing ridership on those bus routes. How else would rerouting a few bus routes for several blocks to a private ROW increase ridership more than an entire heavy rail branch line?

the 48 sees an average weekday ridership of 8500, more than double the estimate for the cultural corridor light rail. the 33 is 15,800 or so riders per day
http://www.septa.org/reports/pdf/asp14.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Philly really should be ashamed of itself. Not only is the region not getting anywhere in terms of extending the reach of our limited rail system, it's way behind the times compared to other cities. Hec, they can't even keep things clean, attractive and safe. All that TIGER money didn't seem to buy us much did it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHn23zp5AR0

Suburban Station wrote:

FatPants wrote:...

When was it studied? Was it a reputable study by a reputable firm? Do you have a copy of the study?

It was studied under the street administration as an offshoot of the stillborn SVM project...perhaps 2004? as surprising as it may be, I did not keep a copy of the study. at the time it just seemed like another ill thought out political proposal doomed for failure. Do you think that 4000 riders is too low?

SCB2525 wrote:I would think that this "ridership" is simply counting existing ridership on those bus routes. How else would rerouting a few bus routes for several blocks to a private ROW increase ridership more than an entire heavy rail branch line?

the 48 sees an average weekday ridership of 8500, more than double the estimate for the cultural corridor light rail. the 33 is 15,800 or so riders per day
http://www.septa.org/reports/pdf/asp14.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought it was studied as part of a loop for SVM. I know the idea of the Cultural Line came up again rather recently, but I don't think there was a study for a line to operate as a BRT.

I agree with others that making this an isolated BRT line would be ridiculous. Making this a trolley line would be less ridiculous, especially since it could connect with the 15 and even the proposed Delaware Avenue Line along the waterfront. I'd think a busway could be the greatest bang for buck, though, as areas towards the Northwest of the city could have a faster way into Center City.

A daily ridership of 4k isn't great but if it were first a bus line, that ridership isn't awful. That way there wouldn't be a huge imbalance of capital/O&M costs-to-riders. The RiverLine ridership in NJ is 9k per day and that project cost $1b. Population surely has shifted around the City since then. A quick little feasibility study can give a better idea of cost, ridership and routing provided DVRPC doesn't get involved and screw it all up.

the busway idea would be cheapest. theres no reason the cultural corridor couldnt be one of the buses. 4k riders is ok for a lot of places but philly has much busier routes that could use some investment. didnt the river line fail to qualify for federal funding ? the thing is the part of the line that is booming is the branch itself not parkside.

Looks like the Philadelphia metro area isn't the only member of the forgotten bottom club in Pennsylvania

http://t.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll ... =tabletart" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

20k of daily commuters is a big number. That's almost a baseball stadium of people moving from Scranton to NYC every day.

why so many stations? that has to be bloating the project cost

That cost, expected to be more, would include train stations in Coolbaugh Township, Tobyhanna, Analomink, East Stroudsburg and Delaware Water Gap, in addition to the construction of stations in Blairstown and Andover in New Jersey.

Why not contract NH&IRR to do once-per-two-hours trips to/from warminster & new hope?

And, what about another partnership with PN for service between landsdale & quakertown?

Just grab some simple HEP diesels from MP or wherever is cheapest, refurb those comet 3's and boom.

Dunno how much it'd cost to do that, but it seems more realistic as a bridge to SEPTA running the service?

I have talked to many at NH&I and they seemed open to the idea......