"The Last Mile" Problem

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:52 pm There are some other cities with the last mile issue:
[snip]

Route 128/Westwood - an auto-oriented park/ride, with last mile issues coming up for passengers without cars or someone coming for pickup.

But Westwood is served by MBTA Regional Rail, and for people needing access to more options, the next station, Back Bay has subway and bus connections, along with several other Regional Rail lines. Many people will use 128/Westwood as a matter of convenience if a ride is available (including Uber/Lyft options), but otherwise disembark at Back Bay or South Station. When my daughter comes to visit from New York, for example, I will usually pick her up in Westwood, but if I can't, it's easy enough for her to get to our house using transit if she just stays on the train for one more stop. I don't think that is the same sort of last mile problem that many of the other stations you've listed suffer.

NaugyRR wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:01 pm That said, could it really hurt? I'm not suggesting the train crew get out and hold your hand to a car, then drive you personally to your hotel. I just don't see the harm in trying to appeal to a broader audience, especially when you have younger generations that are starting to forgo car ownership. To me there would be no harm in Amtrak Marketing reaching out to Uber, Lyft, the local county bus or taxi, and saying "Hey, *insert station* is a bit of a connecting transportation desert. We feel if we publicize and help our passengers with connecting to your services that it would boost both our numbers, is that something you'd like to look into with us?".

Here's the thing: Amtrak used to have a partnership with Lyft. Is that still going on?

But to the main point, it's not just an Amtrak problem. When I didn't have a car it was get a ride to a station 10 minutes away, because I'm in the middle of two stations (BWI Amtrak and Odenton MARC). Even with a monthly rate, Lyft got expensive real quick, and local transit routes only picks up where there's a lot of passengers going to places. This was at a time where I was working in Baltimore and taking MARC to commute.

Now there is a Dial-a-Ride service where you schedule a pickup now and it'll take you to whatever pre-arranged destination, done by the local government here. As I mentioned before, Amtrak partnered with Lyft. Folks are trying solutions out there to solve it with what existing layouts are... but until we get "Transit Oriented Designed" cities, it's going to be piecemeal.

electricron wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 9:56 am The last mile problem is not Amtrak's responsibility, it is the local transit agency's and eventually your's.
Why this issue is even being discussed on the Amtrak forum?

Why are there roofs on airports? Moving walkways? Parking lots? Paved streets connecting to the freeway?

I mean it's your problem to get to the plane, not Delta's. They should just throw your bags on the tarmac and let you come get them and then hoof it to your car that you parked at the Pizza Hut across the airfield.

electricron wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 9:56 am The last mile problem is not Amtrak's responsibility, it is the local transit agency's and eventually your's.
Why this issue is even being discussed on the Amtrak forum?

Because, as noted above, a last-mile problem -- whatever the cause -- can result in Amtrak's losing an entire line haul (for want of a nail ... ); Amtrak has a lot to gain from finding a solution to this, proportionally to the potential ridership involved.

Perhaps the question is really how many passengers are lost to Amtrak because of the last-mile gap.

ExCon90 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 8:22 pm Because, as noted above, a last-mile problem -- whatever the cause -- can result in Amtrak's losing an entire line haul (for want of a nail ... ); Amtrak has a lot to gain from finding a solution to this, proportionally to the potential ridership involved.
Perhaps the question is really how many passengers are lost to Amtrak because of the last-mile gap.

Historically, going all the way back to the 1830s when the Baltimore and Ohio railroad starting moving passengers on trains between cities, the railroad could care less what you did after getting off, or what you did to get on the train.
Do airlines worry how you get to and away from the airports ? Do Greyhound and Express buses care how you get to or from their bus stations?
Why should Amtrak care differently?
Do you need to be herded like cattle everywhere you go?

electricron wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:32 pm
Historically, going all the way back to the 1830s when the Baltimore and Ohio railroad starting moving passengers on trains between cities, the railroad could care less what you did after getting off, or what you did to get on the train.

Dude how wrong do you want to be today? B&O had busses in quite a few cities making last mile connections such as Jersey City to NYC.





You also have Amtrak connecting busses


Also Burlington Trailways came out of CB&Q: "Burlington Trailways was founded in 1929 as the Burlington Transportation Company, a subsidiary of the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad." - Wikipedia


BAR ran busses well into the 80's after the passenger trains were gone:


You also have entire railroad ferries owned by SNCF and British Rail:


The C&O had ferries for years that have outlasted the C&O and run independently now:

electricron wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:32 pm Do airlines worry how you get to and away from the airports ?

In fact they do and you can earn American Airlines mileage for rides to the airport on Super Shuttle:

Earn 50 miles for every one way airport ride and 100 miles for round trip reservations. Additionally, miles can be earned for rides booked through sister, company ExecuCar. Choose between private black car service or SUV service and earn 150 miles for each one way airport trip, or 300 for round trip rides.

https://www.supershuttle.com/american/

Something that's been done since the 1830's could probably stand a second look. Since airlines are now the primary means of intercity transportation (other than private auto), most airports (and Amtrak NEC stations) have plenty of last-mile access. Amtrak can't afford to say "if people want to take the train they'll have to find us."

Cattle herding is not involved. Some people simply like to have details worked out by somebody else while they do something they'd rather be doing. Many companies have been successful by satisfying their customers' wants.

Tadman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:08 pm
Dude how wrong do you want to be today? B&O had busses in quite a few cities making last mile connections such as Jersey City to NYC.

You also have Amtrak connecting busses

Also Burlington Trailways came out of CB&Q: "Burlington Trailways was founded in 1929 as the Burlington Transportation Company, a subsidiary of the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy Railroad." - Wikipedia

BAR ran busses well into the 80's after the passenger trains were gone:

You also have entire railroad ferries owned by SNCF and British Rail:

The C&O had ferries for years that have outlasted the C&O and run independently now:

In fact they do and you can earn American Airlines mileage for rides to the airport on Super Shuttle:

Only the last example may qualify for a last mile solution, shucks even a last 10 miles solution. All the others are examples of intercity travel, not within the same city travel or last mile.
And again, just because one airline has a deal with a never heard of before Super Shuttle, that still does not mean Amtrak or even another airline should copy them. Even so, you still have to book your bus ride on Super Shuttle's web site separately from the airline's web site.
The only city I am aware of, city not metro, that Amtrak has stations around two miles apart is in New Haven. That is about as close Amtrak gets to last mile service.

Jersey City to Manhattan can't really be considered intercity since New York is a special case (how many cities contain five counties?) and amounts to a single metropolitan area involving two states. The closest the B&O trains could get to Manhattan was Jersey City, and the railroad realized they could attract more intercity passengers if they provided a better last-mile (literally) connection than dumping passengers at the foot of Liberty Street, and nobody was going to do it for them. It was a business decision. Business decisions are what Amtrak is supposed to be making.

If Amtrak could provide some sort of solution to the last mile problem , I think it would see a significant increase in ridership.
i remember trying to get between the 2 Buffalo stations late at night to catch the LSL. Turned out to be cheaper to get Greyhound to Rochester(? I think) where they shared the station with Amtrak .

B&O found a last mile solution because they were for-profit....

The harsh reality is that neither Amtrak or the transit agencies care if they have incremental passenger traffic -- they only care about having enough to justify continued funding.

Tadman wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:08 pm Dude how wrong do you want to be today? B&O had busses in quite a few cities making last mile connections such as Jersey City to NYC.

You also have Amtrak connecting busses

Mr. Dunville, I'm sorry but I have to stick up for Ron in this instance - at least insofar as the B&O Busses.

From one, who observed with his own, at the time, young eyes, the B&O busses making rounds from their station within the Chanin Building on 42nd St, the B&O was a ticketing road from New York; so for that matter are the various Ambusses today. I think our last mile discussion around here has been directed transferring to transit agencies and for hire vehicles rather than the integral mode that the B&O and Ambusses represent.

But thanks for locating those nice photos you uploaded here.

electricron wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:32 pm Do airlines worry how you get to and away from the airports ?

Arguably, they do. That's why JFK built the Airtrain, to shuttle passengers between the terminals and the LIRR and MTA Subway. And several other airports operate shuttle buses to close but not in airport transportation systems. BOS and LAX come to mind, both of which provide free buses to the closest rail transit station, but I'm sure there are others.

Guys the Hudson River crossing is absolutely "last mile". Don't forget PRR had the H&M or PATH trains as well. There is a large river full of ships preventing trains from getting downtown. The distance is about a mile from CNJ Jersey City, Lackawanna Hoboken, or PRR Exchange Place to lower Manhattan. The railroads had busses, ferries, and a subway to facilitate that last mile. The last mile was critical to the business model.

Perhaps the last mile should be defined as "operations critical to the product/service sold by the transport organization". Nobody rides the NEC or Crescent to get dropped in Jersey City, so the ferries and bus are last mile. In the other Cascade thread where discussion of college kids riding the Eugene segment is made, it's arguable that if a campus bus to the 10-ish colleges named would double ridership, then a campus bus is critical and thus valid as last mile.

Transport companies exist to get people places, not drop them off behind a river.

Another thing to think about in the last miles concept: does a last mile bus or ferry materially save time? That's a good thing.

You could run the Zephyr down to San Jose and up the Caltrain track to downtown SFO but that would add 4-5 hours versus a transbay bus.

The new Duluth train could be shortened by an hour if they terminated in Superior and ran a coach downtown. That's critical to getting the schedule under the magic three hour mark that drivers use as an over-under to choose the train.