• "High Speed Rail" and other hot button issues.

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by Gilbert B Norman
 
CNJ wrote:Such a discussion has been very beneficial on this forum. Especially when we have a thread of resident posters here complaining how Amtrak personally rapes them in the wallet over the operation of passenger trains...but yet its OK to have federal subsidies for Essential Air Services (EAS), being paid fo fly empty 9 passenger Cessna 400-Series planes to small towns under the guide that there needs to be commercial air service to that location.
Now come on Sgt Hensley, it's FUN to fly in a Cessna 412, or at least it was last Summer Boston (KBOS) to Nantucket (KACK); therefore the government should subsidize those flights.

About as absurd as some pro-LD arguments I've seen posted mostly elsewhere.
  by David Benton
 
i think the last few posts illustrate how threads are often hijacked . its abit like a football game , the guy throwing the punch gets penalised , but the ref doesnt see the foul play that lead to it . or rather , the provocation . or the professional fouls . i'm not sure if you have any of these terms in american football , but anyway , my point is , its not always the guy who does the name calling , or the real off topic post , that started it .
  by 2nd trick op
 
First, let me offer my regrets that I haven't seen this thread until this morning. Of late, a lot of my time has, by necessity, been spent at employment-related sites, and the rancor, polarization and partisanship displayed there would make the formative days of the Amtrak forum (which I often cite as a fine job of moderation and development) look tame.

Let's be honest, as well, and admit that a lot of us here have strong political/ideological beliefs, and the railroad, by its very nature, cannot avoid being swept into that controversy.

To summarize my take, it might be a good idea to point out that journalism, like any other field of endeavor, has a history. A perusal of early issues of Railway Age, for example, reinforces the point that at the turn of the Twentieth Century, no journalist of any stature would deviate from the religious and nationalistic mainstream of the day.

I would cite the emergence of opinion leaders like Mencken, Lippmann and some of the leading members of Franklin Roosevelt's inner circle as key players in the breakaway from a journalistic consensus still geared to an America not fully urbanized, industrialized, and secular.

After World War II, the "mainstream media" as we knew it in the 1960's continued to evolve. While it rightfully divorced itself from the last vestiges of the former consensus, and embraced the policies of equal human rights and freedom of expression, and made a great impact among the young and better-educated, it also came to be viewed as overly friendly to the broad-spectrum left-of-center ideology embodied in the Democratic Party's reconciliation with a campus-spawned radicalism.

And this, in turn, led to the emergence of a number of conservative strains, everything from the Libertarian movement, similarly spawned on campus, to the theocratic doctrines of the Religious Right, some of which gained an equal footing with what had previously billed itself as the only game in town.

And the polarization grew, and in the process, due to its espousal of the sacrifice of individual mobiliy (freedom) for supposed common benefit, the HSR option, by its very nature, became linked to the thinking of a lot of the people on the speaker's left. while the few remaining major railroads revived themselves (with a rare example of well-placed public sector participation) but also came to see themselves as highly-visible targets for an Administration clearly viewed as linked to a hostile ideology.

Somewhere, under all this mess, lies an opportunity to return the entire rail industry, both passenger and freight, to a pre-eminent position, but the nature of the industry will make this very difficult to achieve without upsetting any number of components which are still working very well. Hopefully, this can be accomplished in a manner similar to the technological/information boom in the wake of the AT&T breakup.

But all but the youngest of our membership are liklely to see only the early stages of that great story; and the woods are full of tigers (and more than a few squirrels) with other ideas.
Last edited by 2nd trick op on Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:14 pm, edited 7 times in total.
  by Ridgefielder
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote:
CNJ wrote:Such a discussion has been very beneficial on this forum. Especially when we have a thread of resident posters here complaining how Amtrak personally rapes them in the wallet over the operation of passenger trains...but yet its OK to have federal subsidies for Essential Air Services (EAS), being paid fo fly empty 9 passenger Cessna 400-Series planes to small towns under the guide that there needs to be commercial air service to that location.
Now come on Sgt Hensley, it's FUN to fly in a Cessna 412, or at least it was last Summer Boston (KBOS) to Nantucket (KACK); therefore the government should subsidize those flights.

About as absurd as some pro-LD arguments I've seen posted mostly elsewhere.
Mr. Norman: I don't know about your idea of fun. Last time I flew on one of those on roughly that route (Barnstable County Airport to Nantucket) in the midst of a howling Nor'easter, I found it somewhat less than enjoyable. Was quite happy to return to the mainland a week later on the M/V Eagle... -B
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
I agree Mr. Ridgefielder, that there could be conditions that could make a Cape Air flight "less than fun"; likewise there could be some making a sailing on the M/V Eagle "less than fun'.

On the day of my flight this past August, the "Commander-in-Chief' was arriving on Martha's Vineyard; therefore, the Flight Plan called for a heading of about 100 from KBOS to VOR LFV near Provincetown then a heading of 165 to VOR ACK Nantucket. Had Mr. President not been in town, the heading from KBOS would have been about 125 direct to ACK.
  by Otto Vondrak
 
So it seems like we're winding down here. So we're all in agreement that I'm always right. I'm glad we got that settled. Thanks for stopping by...

-otto-
  by justalurker66
 
Otto Vondrak wrote:So it seems like we're winding down here. So we're all in agreement that I'm always right. I'm glad we got that settled. Thanks for stopping by...

-otto-
Yes Otto, you're always right. It's your place ... thanks for letting us in to hold our conversations.
  by Otto Vondrak
 
justalurker66 wrote:Yes Otto, you're always right.
I wish we had a [tongue-in-cheek] tag or a [sarcasm] tag. Just in case anyone missed it, my previous post was an attempt at humor on my part...

Anyway, it looks like we're winding down, so if you have comments to share, get them in by the end of the week.

-otto-
  by Jeff Smith
 
Otto Vondrak wrote: I wish we had a [tongue-in-cheek] tag or a [sarcasm] tag. Just in case anyone missed it, my previous post was an attempt at humor on my part...

-otto-
After I write something sarcastic, I usually put in parentheticals: (sound of sarcasm dripping) as if it were a stage instruction. Now if we can only come up with one for dry wit.
  by justalurker66
 
Otto Vondrak wrote:
justalurker66 wrote:Yes Otto, you're always right.
I wish we had a [tongue-in-cheek] tag or a [sarcasm] tag. Just in case anyone missed it, my previous post was an attempt at humor on my part...
Mine was intended the same way.