Amtrak now does assigned seating - oh when will they lear

AgentSkelly wrote:Mr. Norman, I think this is the first time you have said "grrrrrr" in this fourm.

Mr. Skelly (linked image appears immediately below), I was a bit more of a foaming railfan back in 1969 than i am today. When I hired on with the MILW after college graduation during June 1970, that started my phase out of active railfanning. After all, what was a hobby had now become my livelihood.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:

AgentSkelly wrote:Mr. Norman, I think this is the first time you have said "grrrrrr" in this fourm.

Mr.


I was a bit more of a foaming railfan back in 1969 than i am today. When I hired on with the MILW after college graduation during June 1970, that started my phase out of active railfanning. After all, what was a hobby had now become my livelihood.

Oh I know....you just always speak everything gracefully and I though it was funny hearing you not for a second.

Anyways. The thing that irks me about the Cascades seating assignment system is that it requires people to stand in another line in a crowded station.

Additionally (I've only read the first page of posts so forgive me if the conversation has evolved since then), it would make more sense to do this with coach seating on LD trains because the train crew can have a much narrower focus in terms of getting people off the train at their stop. When I'm on the northeast regional between WAS and NPN, the conductors are constantly running up and down the cars (seven to 8) making sure everyone knows their stop is coming up and where to exit as not all doors open. This would mean that someone sitting in a car (more than likely with luggage) that is not opening its doors at their stop (how would they know ahead of time, especially if they're not train savvy) would have to walk through multiple cars (depending on the situation before reaching an exit where the door are open. This too can slow down the disembarking procedure at a station. Assigned seating makes operations on LD service easier (in my observations).

The first and only time I rode LD coach was in 1995 (I was 12 years old en-route to Orlando, FL) on the Silver Meteor and they had assigned seating. I boarded at NYP. It made perfect sense to me then and I got why they did this right away. I don't recall any seat assignments on the tickets. I know that the train crew on the platform asked our destination and directed us to a particular car. I vaguely remembered actual seating assignments(row twenty something) but I will say that all four of us (Myself, Grandmother, Mother and Father) sat across the isle from each other taking up all four seats. So our party/family was kept together. The same went for the family that sat directly behind us.

Side note: My Grandmother tried to talk my parents into traveling 1st class based on our experience but they thought that coach would suffice; needless to say, that was an "I told you so" experience for the record books

I've taken quite a few long-distance coach trips, and when I was boarding a train at night in the middle of its trip I appreciated having seats picked out for me and family members. In the summer of 2008 my wife and I boarded the Silver Star at Staples Mill Road station in Virginia and we offered to let a couple with a little boy go ahead of us because they would need seats together. Turns out they were traveling sleeper, and the crew had coach seats together ready for me and my wife. Another time I got onto the Crescent with one of my sons, who was young at the time, in Greensboro, NC, around midnight and again there were seats ready for us.

I had a different take on assigned seats a few weeks ago, boarding 94 at Fredericksburg, Va. I and another commuter were traveling with upgrades on Virginia Railway Express, and we let all the regular passengers get on first, as is the custom. The lady conductor was telling people that there were seats toward the rear. The man conductor was telling everybody, including families with children, that the train was sold out and they all had to sit in the first single seats they came to. When he saw me walking back to the lounge, he asked where I was going. I said that if the train was sold out, I would need to sit in the lounge because I was riding on a VRE ticket (sometimes VRE riders do need to sit in the lounge on a sold-out train; it's not a problem, and I was only going 46 miles to Alexandria). He said that the lounge seats were all sold out too! I didn't like being lied to and went and sat in the mostly empty lounge. That train could have used assigned seating for the families, and maybe that's how some other trains could be handled: assign seats on request for people traveling together.

matthewsaggie wrote:On the Carolinian we will often assign seats when the train manifest indicates that we will be full by Raleigh or Wilson heading north. Main reason is to protect some doubles for couples getting on in Wilson, Rocky Mount, Richmond, etc. Its a pain- people see empty seats and want a window-- couples get on in Petersburg, etc and complain because there are no doubles so they can sit together. Its a can't win situation for the crew. When the train's expected to be less then full, we don't bother with it. Leaving Charlotte we do block cars by destination especially since Burlington, Cary and Selma are short platforms. Washington to NY passengers will be in the first car till it over flows, usually by Wilson. We also put all the Raleigh's in one car and will have 100% turn over in that car when we hit Raleigh.

First of all, it does make sense to "block cars by destination." This is a good, customer friendly practice. However, assigned seating is horrible mistake unless the car and seat assignments are clearly printed on the tickets. If passengers are lined up on the platform, waiting at a single vestibule, with seat assignments being made on the spot, arbitrarily, often incorrectly, this is customer service nightmare on every level. Under the circumstances, the passengers have every right to feel frustrated.

If Amtrak wants to dabble with assigned seating, Amtrak first needs to update its ticketing practices, and then make the major procedural changes necessary. Almost every airline, with the historical exception of SouthWest, has found a way to assign seats and many now generate additional profits from charging a premium for window and exit locations. Sleeping car accommodations have always been assigned, so I suppose that coach seats could be ticketed in the same manner, although that would require ticket sales to be made on the basis of a seating diagram. However, all of this would require Amtrak to use modern ticketing practices - something that seems very unlikely.

If this lamentable assigned seating practice is the result of a corporate level directive, the crews in question have my sympathy. I would never encourage insubordination, even when a management directive is dead wrong. However, if some rogue crew member are just taking it upon themselves to assign seating, it's time to stop the practice.

Rtrain wrote:

Murjax wrote:

Rtrain wrote:
all the doors opened at vancouver, washington? do you realize how long that would take, what if we come in on main 1? then we have to put step boxes down (and then back up) for every coach, close up and then go.
we put all the seattles in 8 and 9 leaving vancouver, bc and along the way. that way when we get to seattle those 2 cars are completely empty and the new crew can assign seats in those cars. if we just let everyone sit everywhere then every 4 seater would have 1 person spread out and all the families getting on in seattle would be crying about having to sit spread over 5 cars.

I meant Vancouver, BC when I said you should open all the doors. I forgot there was a Vancouver, WA. Anyway as I said before I understand assigning seats so families can be together, but for everyone else it's more of a nuisance than convenience. A separate car reserved for families of 3 and more would make both happy. It might make passengers in other cars happier too. With a majority of kids in one car other people could read, sleep, or work easier.

oops. the joys of having a train that stops at 2 stations with the same name!

yeah but the fact that only certain cars will open at certain stations. and you can't just open a door and say find a seat cause people will be schlepping through the train with luggage, they'll walk to the last car and realize its full, then walk back to where they got on and "settle" for having to sit next to someone. or they will see an open seat and sit and get comfortable, meanwhile theres a seatcheck there and the person is just in the bathroom.
its sad but true, people need to be babysat and told what to do or it gets crazy. people whine and complain and try to avoid sitting next to someone EVERY TIME. this is public transportation folks, you are gonna have to sit next to someone. if you want to be able to smoke and spread out across 4 seats then drive your car.

A decent conductor will direct passengers to available seating. It's a lot easier to ask for a destination and then direct a passenger to a car than to waste time with assigned seating. This is why it makes sense to block cars by destination, trying to gently separate local and long distance passengers for sake of convenience, rather than cause confusion through ad hoc attempts to (incorrectly) assign seats. If flight attendants attempted to arbitrarily assign seats as passengers stepped aboard the plane, there would be mass confusion. That's precisely why airline seats were traditionally assigned at check in, and why seats are now assigned at the time of an online ticket purchase.

Beyond the practical issues, it's important not to make a practice of antagonizing passengers, especially when there is no purpose is doing so. Passengers don't need to be "babysat and told what to do," and this sort of attitude is simply patronizing and combative. A person who feels that way shouldn't be working with the public. If you want to advise a passenger to "drive your car," it's time to be prepared for unemployment, since this is precisely the sort of sentiment that drives away patronage and undermines public support for Amtrak.

Most European railroads allow you to book an assigned seat on their premium trains. And in Germany (maybe other countries too) you pay a small surcharge for the seat assignment.

I for one would be happy to pay a little extra for an assigned seat on a long distance train in this country, if that were ever offered as an option. Paying a few extra dollars would be well worth the price if I could ensure that I would have, as example, a window seat in the rear of the coach (my preferred seat).

Of course assigned seating also means assigned coaches and this could be a little complicated (my guess) for many first time travelers.

BenH wrote:Most European railroads allow you to book an assigned seat on their premium trains. And in Germany (maybe other countries too) you pay a small surcharge for the seat assignment.

I for one would be happy to pay a little extra for an assigned seat on a long distance train in this country, if that were ever offered as an option. Paying a few extra dollars would be well worth the price if I could ensure that I would have, as example, a window seat in the rear of the coach (my preferred seat).

Of course assigned seating also means assigned coaches and this could be a little complicated (my guess) for many first time travelers.

That's not a bad idea. Maybe this should be used in the Northeast Regional's business class car. I think that could be a big selling point. Not only do you get free drinks buy you also get to choose where you sit before you board.

goodnightjohnwayne wrote:
A decent conductor will direct passengers to available seating. It's a lot easier to ask for a destination and then direct a passenger to a car than to waste time with assigned seating. This is why it makes sense to block cars by destination, trying to gently separate local and long distance passengers for sake of convenience, rather than cause confusion through ad hoc attempts to (incorrectly) assign seats. If flight attendants attempted to arbitrarily assign seats as passengers stepped aboard the plane, there would be mass confusion. That's precisely why airline seats were traditionally assigned at check in, and why seats are now assigned at the time of an online ticket purchase.

Beyond the practical issues, it's important not to make a practice of antagonizing passengers, especially when there is no purpose is doing so. Passengers don't need to be "babysat and told what to do," and this sort of attitude is simply patronizing and combative. A person who feels that way shouldn't be working with the public. If you want to advise a passenger to "drive your car," it's time to be prepared for unemployment, since this is precisely the sort of sentiment that drives away patronage and undermines public support for Amtrak.

hey armchair quarterback, you have no idea what the situation is like out here so keep your mouth shut.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Let us be mindful at this discussion that "we" care more about where we sit on a public conveyance than does "John Q". Quite simply, John Q does not care, and if he does it is usually limited to having his party sit together. Window seats properly aligned, center car, forward riding on the 'action' (Fireman's) side, are simply not on the priority list. Therefore, having an Attendant directing the passenger to a seat in most cases is hardly the "big deal' that it is to many here.
(

I think John Q does indeed care. If the passenger is a frequent user of the restroom, or, like my father, has a medical issue that requires him to stand and walk around every hour or so, he'd prefer to sit in the aisle seat. My mother gets dizzy when seated backwards.

A railfan might prefer the window, as would someone trying to sleep against the window.

These are personal decisions that an attendant cannot know about. Others, as you said, don't care, so they'll sit wherever there is room.

If a family wants to sit together, all they have to do is find those who don't care and arrange to switch. If no one wants to switch.....what's the big deal?

As other have mentioned, another solution would be to allow passengers to pick a seat before boarding, but only on the busiest of routes.

Rtrain wrote:

goodnightjohnwayne wrote:
A decent conductor will direct passengers to available seating. It's a lot easier to ask for a destination and then direct a passenger to a car than to waste time with assigned seating. This is why it makes sense to block cars by destination, trying to gently separate local and long distance passengers for sake of convenience, rather than cause confusion through ad hoc attempts to (incorrectly) assign seats. If flight attendants attempted to arbitrarily assign seats as passengers stepped aboard the plane, there would be mass confusion. That's precisely why airline seats were traditionally assigned at check in, and why seats are now assigned at the time of an online ticket purchase.

Beyond the practical issues, it's important not to make a practice of antagonizing passengers, especially when there is no purpose is doing so. Passengers don't need to be "babysat and told what to do," and this sort of attitude is simply patronizing and combative. A person who feels that way shouldn't be working with the public. If you want to advise a passenger to "drive your car," it's time to be prepared for unemployment, since this is precisely the sort of sentiment that drives away patronage and undermines public support for Amtrak.

hey armchair quarterback, you have no idea what the situation is like out here so keep your mouth shut.

From your comment, I would take it that this assigned seating phenomenon isn't a corporate directive but some sort of misguided personal initiative? This is the wrong attitude to put forward to the general public.

I would suggest that you take stock and realize that Amtrak crews are very fortunate in terms of working conditions and remuneration. Compared to some Class I freight railroads I can mention, Amtrak is very good employer. I would also suggest that you remember what happened at VIA Rail, where there hasn't been a single conductor since 1998. Consider for a moment that even a newly hired assistant conductor makes more than a veteran pilot working for some regional airlines. There are plenty of good reasons for Amtrak employees to go to work everyday smiling - and most do.

goodnightjohnwayne wrote:

Rtrain wrote:

goodnightjohnwayne wrote:
A decent conductor will direct passengers to available seating. It's a lot easier to ask for a destination and then direct a passenger to a car than to waste time with assigned seating. This is why it makes sense to block cars by destination, trying to gently separate local and long distance passengers for sake of convenience, rather than cause confusion through ad hoc attempts to (incorrectly) assign seats. If flight attendants attempted to arbitrarily assign seats as passengers stepped aboard the plane, there would be mass confusion. That's precisely why airline seats were traditionally assigned at check in, and why seats are now assigned at the time of an online ticket purchase.

Beyond the practical issues, it's important not to make a practice of antagonizing passengers, especially when there is no purpose is doing so. Passengers don't need to be "babysat and told what to do," and this sort of attitude is simply patronizing and combative. A person who feels that way shouldn't be working with the public. If you want to advise a passenger to "drive your car," it's time to be prepared for unemployment, since this is precisely the sort of sentiment that drives away patronage and undermines public support for Amtrak.

hey armchair quarterback, you have no idea what the situation is like out here so keep your mouth shut.

From your comment, I would take it that this assigned seating phenomenon isn't a corporate directive but some sort of misguided personal initiative? This is the wrong attitude to put forward to the general public.

I would suggest that you take stock and realize that Amtrak crews are very fortunate in terms of working conditions and remuneration. Compared to some Class I freight railroads I can mention, Amtrak is very good employer. I would also suggest that you remember what happened at VIA Rail, where there hasn't been a single conductor since 1998. Consider for a moment that even a newly hired assistant conductor makes more than a veteran pilot working for some regional airlines. There are plenty of good reasons for Amtrak employees to go to work everyday smiling - and most do.

You do realize that Rtrain is an Amtrak employee right?

goodnightjohnwayne, I think the preaching is unnecessary. I also think Rtrain has valid frustrations. The seat assignments on the cascades are mandated by the state of washington... that's just how they want it done. So this isn't a case of an unqualified rouge conductor telling people where to sit because it's fun to piss people off, which is the conclusion you have jumped to.
You also say a decent conductor will direct you to available seating, to ask for destination and direct the passenger to the car in accordance with their destination. Well, they do. They do exactly that, otherwise there would be carry-by's. In fact, the only place where seats are assigned are at the initial station. All other stations you'll simply be boarded on a car that has other passengers going to your same destination.
Do people always sit where they are supposed to? No.
Does it make the trip miserable for other passengers sometimes? Yes.
Sometimes, the passengers do need to be told to not scatter their bags over the 3 surrounding seats, not to talk on the cellphone at their seat, become intoxicated, smoke in the bathroom, the list goes on. So I guess some disrespectful folks do need to be babysat..... it's part of customer service, it's all about how you handle it. If they didn't take care of those people, wouldn't that be bad customer service to others???
So why don't you lay-off a bit? VIA rail doesn't have anything to do with Amtrak, and if assistant conductors make more than a pilot it's not his fault. Just shows that he might be a little smarter.

Given that the LD Car Attendants and Conductors on busier trains usually carry a specifically printed pad with the car seating layout in which they write the code of the station to which each person in an assigned seat is travelling, I hardly think this is simply a matter of a few "rogue Conductors."

Sometimes I travel with company, other times alone. In most cases, I've been assigned a seat, often times when riding solo, it's not the window seat I'd prefer but I understand the importance to those travelling together to be seated together, and actually appreciate it, particularly when I'm riding with company.

I am at a loss to comprehend the self-absorbed belly-aching of some posters on here who seem to think their desire to sit where they please is more important than anything else, and that any attempt to direct them otherwise is outright insanity that needs to be stopped.

I've caught owl train #67 south from Baltimore at 610am few times, and I can almost never find a seat since it's all single riders asleep with them and their crap sprawled across both seats. LD Open seating would invariably lead to this, and when you try to awaken someone without that seat check to show you're assigned there, it would likely lead to a lot of passenger antagonism of "Why did you choose to wake ME up and sit next to ME?"

So, on the Cascades, there's a 50% chance you'll be assigned a backward facing seat? If so, I'll take the bus.