New Amtrak equipment

Jishnu wrote:Yes, I have ridden on Acela both First and Business and I think the Business Class seat on Acela are a nicer than the Acela Regional Coach seats and the seat pitch appears to be larger than on short distance A-1s, but admittedly I don't have the exact facts and figures in inches and feet, and you may very well be right.

Well, the business class Acela coaches have 64 seats IIRC. So, that would imply a larger seat pitch than the 84 seat Amfleets. The length of the cars is roughly equivalent (85' for Amfleet, 87' for an Acela Express coach.) On the other hand, the Acela does have larger bathrooms, so that leaves a little less room for seats.

mattfels wrote:There seems to be some misunderstanding about what "Business Class" represents. It's not the legroom. It's not the goodies. The primary value proposition of any class upgrade is the class of passengers you're riding with. As long as the base Acela accommodation costs more than coach on a Regional train, it's appropriate to call it Business Class.

I'm gonna have to disagree on this one. When I buy an upgraded accommodation ticket, I'm buying a class of service, not a class of seatmate.

One of Amtrak's marketing shortcomings (not that this is a major shortcoming, but a shortcoming nonetheless), in my opinion, is the lack of consistency in its classes of service. "Business Class" on Regional trains in the Northeast means (usually) extended seat pitch similar to that of long-distance coaches. I've never ridden the Acela Express, so I can't comment on that, but some on this list are suggesting that the seat pitch is similar to/same as coach on other trains.

A year and a half ago I rode the (then) Twilight Shoreliner in business class, and we had three-across club seats with extra legroom. That is also how it is on the Cascades Talgos in the Northwest (formerly called custom class, and still referred to as "custom class" on the info video at the start of the trip). I believe the same is true for "Pacific Business Class" on the Surfliners, but I'm not 100% sure of that. Maybe one of our California travelers can correct me if I'm wrong.

In the Midwest, "Business Class" means the coach seating at the other end of the cafe car. It has the same seat pitch as the standard corridor-configured Horizon cars. Sometimes you'll get a corridor coach seat pitch "business class" car, and a long-distance seat pitch coach. Speaking for myself (and myself alone, though if anyone agrees with me, feel free to say so), if I bought a business class ticket, and found a coach with more legroom, I'd request a refund of my accommodation charge (whether I'd get one is another story, but Amtrak Customer Service can be pretty good at compensating unhappy passengers, even without the "Satisfaction Guaranteed" program).

To muddle the issue even further, Amtrak is apparently refurbishing a few of its Metroliner club/dinettes, and introducing them as "Premiere Class" service. I saw a photograph of such a car (with leather seats) a couple of days ago. I don't know what the timeline is for introducing such service, or where it will be introduced/what it will replace.

So, in summation, the name of a class of service should describe the "product" (or service) being sold, not the fellow customers.

I agree with Mr. Madison.

This notion that class of service is tied to class of seatmate only, as opposed to class of accomodation and service, is odd, to say the least. To be sure, when I purchase first class tickets, I hope to avoid riff raff, but I also expect a more comfortable accomodation, and a higher level of service.

I read in the latest issue of Railfan Magazine that Amtrak is creating a new class of service - "Premium Class" - on some of its trains that are long distance, but don't have a sleeper (or are not overnight, but travel long distances during the day). If I didn't know any better, from the description I read - its simply the renovated Amfleet I Club Cars - 2 and 1 seating in one half, followed by the cafe and then table seating on the other half. My guess is that these are the First Class cars of the Metroliners that are now being displaced with Acela Express trainsets. Article mentioned that the Palmetto, Carolinian, and Pennsylvanian would offer this class. Not sure if this is above and beyond the business class or not - as these trains also have a business class. Perhaps business class will come off as an option? Anyone know any details? Will the train have two food service cars - regular food service plus the one in "Premium Class." Appears interesting. If they could just make those airline slit windows larger on the Amfleets!

My first (and hopefully last) long distance Amtrak venture by Business Class was last year on the Palmetto. It took more than a few visits to the chiropractor to get over that one. And, as much as I hate to agree with Mr. Fels, I did pay the extra C-note to avoid the screaming babies and the hygienically challenged one finds in regular coach. (Ironically, on both legs of the trip I sat across the isle from a mother and infant. Not a peep out of any of them through the night. What are the chances?!) It was this experience that prompted me to suggest on the last forum to install the near flat sleeper seats found on some long distance airlines in existing Business Class Amfleet II cars. What followed was a robust discussion both for and against. One comment made was the seat count would drop to as few as maybe 30. Since there was only a dozen riding overnight the challenge would be to fill the other half of the car.

I have ridden Business Class on the Empire Corridor and would much rather have had this accommodation (2-1 seating with greater seat pitch) than the standard coach seating I found on the Palmetto.

This notion that class of service is tied to class of seatmate only, as opposed to class of accomodation and service, is odd, to say the least.

Good thing, then, that I never claimed it was. Note the word "primary."

Only on Amtrak's Midwest Business Class do the "goodies" alone justify the upcharge. (Which makes it underpriced.) Surely we don't think that the couple extra inches of seat pitch and seat width, plus a cocktail or two, represents the ENTIRE value of first class. Yet certain travelers are willing to pay for it. Why? To avoid the riffraff.

If one doesn't care who one shares a car or cabin with, the solution is simple: Save the money. Don't upgrade.

Is that why Eve Kendall (Eva Marie Saint) tipped the maitre 'd on the Twentieth Century Ltd. $5 to have Roger Thornhill (Cary Grant) seated at her table in the dining car?

LI Loco wrote:Is that why Eve Kendall (Eva Marie Saint) tipped the maitre 'd on the Twentieth Century Ltd. $5 to have Roger Thornhill (Cary Grant) seated at her table in the dining car?

She certainly got her money's worth! Ah, North by Northwest. Great movie....

Is there anyway they can get new cars for the Long Distance Fleet, as it seems there might be a market for a few new trains if Amtrak only had the money and the co-operation of the Frieght Railroads.

Amtrak currently is restricted from starting new Services. and all purchases are on hold , other than most urgent needs.

DutchRailnut wrote:Amtrak currently is restricted from starting new Services. and all purchases are on hold , other than most urgent needs.

Interesting. It is hard to make money without trying out new services that could make money, and to run a train without equipment.