New Amtrak equipment

Gilbert B Norman wrote: Likely a Disneyland ride could then be effected on the PRR, most likely between New Brunswick and Trenton (I knew the Towers once, but memory fades) with only a restricted speed through PJ.

I wouldn't characterize 150 mph service as an amusement any more than 125 mph, and with the speeds being achieved overseas, I hardly think of 150 as being extravagent.

As for Princeton Junction, there's certainly no speed restriction through there. The interlocking there is long gone, and the Acela flies through at 135 mph. Here's a photo showing where the interlocking used to be:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=47362

Unfortunately pragmatism and idealism have a way of conflicting with one another.

Well, in this country anyway, at least when it comes to high speed rail!

Thanks for updating my knowledge regarding Princeton Junction.

And, should Mr. HighSpeed=Mr. Botts, thanks for your excellent photography work.

GBN

Personally I think it would be better to add four additional cars to each Acela Express set that are straight "Coach Class" with lower fare than in "Business Class" with perhaps densers seating (i.e. smaller seat pitch) like in commuter cars. This will provide significant additional capacity for use by those that are unable to pay higher fares and willing to travel in less than "Business Class" comfort, and yet get the speed (and oh yeas! Large windows) advantage. I think this would be a better use of the train sets that are in place, rather than defacing the trains by chopping off one power unit and making them look like most other American passenger trains - a rag-tag mishmash of stuff in five different color schemes barely held together somehow (There are exceptions but the general impression one gets is not a good one)

While I'm not certain, Mr. Jishnu, whether or not you have had occasion to use Acela, Business Class in Acela is simply Coach elsewhere on Amtrak. On the Regional, as well as various other runs about the System, Business Class means seating with pitch equal to that found on LD trains, an Attendant, and "comp" soft drinks through the trip.

Not so with Acela; it is just plain Coach, albeit very attractive, with seat pitch no greater than that of 84 seat Amfleets. AFAIC, the Acela seats are less comfortable than those on A-I's.

As for your proposed "Econocela", take a "hop" over to Japan, experience their 3-2 Standard seating on any of the Bullet lines, then share your thoughts. Who knows, I may be surprised.

No doubt, Acela is the most attractive short distance passenger rail equipment in the Americas; possibly the Western Hemisphere and even the World. But I think this is a trivial detail that Amtrak ought to address - simply rename the Standard product Coach.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:And, should Mr. HighSpeed=Mr. Botts, thanks for your excellent photography work.

Nope, can't take credit for that. But yeah, that is a cool photo! :D

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Not so with Acela; it is just plain Coach, albeit very attractive, with seat pitch no greater than that of 84 seat Amfleets. AFAIC, the Acela seats are less comfortable than those on A-I's.

Are you sure about that? I think the Acela business class seats are more comfortable than those of a coach class Amfleet. But it's been a while since I've ridden in them (I did recently take a joyride on the Acela from Metropark to Philly, but it was so crowded that I just stayed in the cafe car the entire time). The next time I travel aboard the Acela, I'll make a note of the seat comfort and legroom.

Suggestion: Take a small tape measure and check the seat pitch. Various online sources give Metroliner seat pitch at 46 inches, but I couldn't Google any figures for Acelas. Between-the-armrests seat width would be a useful measurement, too.

Remember seat pitch is not the distance between the front cushion and the seatback in front of you. It's the distance from one seat to the identical spot on the next seat up or back. In builders' terms, a 46-inch seat pitch is equivalent to saying, "46-inch centers."

Seat pitch in coach for domestic airlines falls in the 31"-33" range.

Econocela...I like that. :D

I am in agreement that at least 2 more cars should be added to acela sets to increase capacity. I know that there a couple of scheduled acelas that are sold out 99% of the time between NYP-WAS during weekdays.

sure extra coaches Bombardier ownes the designes and patents and prints, so the coaches would cost manufacturing cost & its share of Amtrak lawsuit per coach. like that will happen.

It's been my understanding that Bombardier's JetTrain is really just an Acela trainset with different guts in the power car. The idea of lopping off one of of the Acela's power car got me to thinking... could one build a train with one power car of each type? This would offer three modes of operation:

• Turbine power only, for unelectrified outlying areas where speed is restricted anyway
• Electric power only, for operating in tunnels, where speeds are similarly restricted
• Both power sources

Are there any reason why one couldn't compose a train like this? Is it possibly uneconomic to shut off and start up each power car potentially many times over the course of a trip?

Granted, this is a sort of chimerical creature of only limited application. About the only way I could see it being used is for a high(er) speed Springfield-Washington run, and that's a bit of a stretch...

In your case you would be dragging a dead power car(turbo ) from Washington to New Haven, then a dead power car from New Haven to Springfield, kind of a wast of resources. besides the ACela can only stop at High Level platforms.
The Acela power cars are not locomotives per se, they can not run individualy but only as a pair. the computer needs to see the other powercar even if its dead.

Well, if it is a computer programming issue, that is easily overcome. Since my understanding is that the Acela power cars are very similar to the HHP-8's, I don't see why they couldn't serve as a single locomotive.

I expect we'll see more Acela coaches before we see anything like the hybrid train or the Acela power cars acting as single locomotives.

They are not approved as locomotives, but as Power cars and only if they are mated with their cars or cars with similar couplers, etc and crash pads. they can and are not allowed to be coupled to regular train cars. besides rear coupler is at wrong height. yes techinicaly they are similar to HHP-8 but the body, and coupler system are not. the JetTrain locomotive was built out of a similar shell but extensivly modified during construction.

My suggestion is not that one power car always remain off on a SPG->WAS run. An sample run: from Springfield to New Haven, the train would be powered by turbo only; from New Haven south both power cars are turned on *except* when the train is operating in a tunnel, and the turbo must be shut off.

I also realize that Acelas can only stop at high-level platforms, but the capital cost of constructing new platforms at Springfield and Hartford (and maybe a couple more) is small relative to electrifying from New Haven up. If CTDOT/Amtrak balks at the cost of the latter, they might spring for the former. Not that either is really in a building mood lately, but still.

Of course, if it's actually impossible to fit these two together, the whole thing is moot.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:While I'm not certain, Mr. Jishnu, whether or not you have had occasion to use Acela, Business Class in Acela is simply Coach elsewhere on Amtrak. On the Regional, as well as various other runs about the System, Business Class means seating with pitch equal to that found on LD trains, an Attendant, and "comp" soft drinks through the trip.

My thought was to make the Acela Business Classes pitch like the LD seat pitch and create a new Acela Coach class with the Regional Amfleet seat pitch and charge lower fare for it.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Not so with Acela; it is just plain Coach, albeit very attractive, with seat pitch no greater than that of 84 seat Amfleets. AFAIC, the Acela seats are less comfortable than those on A-I's.

Yes, I have ridden on Acela both First and Business and I think the Business Class seat on Acela are a nicer than the Acela Regional Coach seats and the seat pitch appears to be larger than on short distance A-1s, but admittedly I don't have the exact facts and figures in inches and feet, and you may very well be right.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:As for your proposed "Econocela", take a "hop" over to Japan, experience their 3-2 Standard seating on any of the Bullet lines, then share your thoughts. Who knows, I may be surprised.

Yep, have ridden the Shinkansen of every variety on every Shinkansen line in Japan both in Regular and Green class. The seats are more tightly packed but then the common rider there is also way more compact than the common rider here. Also most cars on Shinkansen are not "reservation obligatory". I have been on a Hikari travelling from Osaka to Hiroshima on the Sanyo Shinkansen, standing in the vestibule between cars because there was no other space on the train. It was jam packed SRO, first Hikari out of Osaka to the South (Hakata) of the day. There was an earlier Nozomi, but my JR Railpass was not valid on the Nozomi, and clearly the crowd on the Hikari did not want to pay the premium Nozomi fare either.

BTW, as mentioned above I was not suggesting 3-2 seating for Econ-Acela.

Gilbert B Norman wrote:No doubt, Acela is the most attractive short distance passenger rail equipment in the Americas; possibly the Western Hemisphere and even the World. But I think this is a trivial detail that Amtrak ought to address - simply rename the Standard product Coach.

I agree with you. But I think additional cars should be added to the trainsets in order to make more seats available to meet the additional demand caused by the lower fare charged for the "Coach" seats.

There seems to be some misunderstanding about what "Business Class" represents. It's not the legroom. It's not the goodies. The primary value proposition of any class upgrade is the class of passengers you're riding with. As long as the base Acela accommodation costs more than coach on a Regional train, it's appropriate to call it Business Class.