Amtrak Ohio: Cincinnati - Columbus - Dayton - Cleveland (and maybe Detroit and Chicago)

Philly AF: I think the B-Line is the former Nickel Plate, and the passenger proposal means to use the former Pennsylvania Railroad (now the short line Chicago, Fort Wayne, and Eastern, leasing the track from CSX) from somewhere around Hammond, IN to Lima, OH. The NKP and PRR parallel each other between Chicago and Fort Wayne, so it's easy to mistake them on a map.

Philly Amtrak Fan wrote:The problem is you can't serve Ft. Wayne, South Bend, and Michigan with only two trains and if you go by population I would have to leave South Bend out (especially if they have the NICTD connection and if they can prove the other lines are faster).

The "South Bend has NICTD so they don't need Amtrak" argument (with the "well maybe perhaps we can extend NICTD to Elkhart" addition to serve Elkhart passengers) could be applied to the new line through Fort Wayne. Once corridor service is added to Fort Wayne and Columbus they don't need the Amtrak LD trains. They might as well leave them where they are.

NICTD currently dead ends at the airport. There are plans to change the alignment in South Bend and enter the airport on the west end of the terminal (near the bus loading areas) instead of taking the slow trip around to reach the east end of the terminal. But in either case, dead ends to not help extension plans. NICTD would need to reverse directions at the airport and build a wye where their track becomes parallel with the NS line unless they abandoned the airport station ... then either use the NS tracks or build their own track to get from the west side of South Bend to downtown Elkhart. It is an extension that I would like to see built - and promising such an extension makes it easier to convince people in Elkhart to support the Chicago to Fort Wayne line.

The proponents of the Chicago-Fort Wayne-Columbus line need the support of South Bend and Elkhart area residents to get their line. Buying it with improvements to NICTD service might just work. Politics at their usual pace.

But then I am probably a decade or two ahead of the discussion. Ohio dumped federal funding for the 3C Corridor - Indiana has a less than pristine track record for supporting trains (although they are improving with the Hoosier State and NICTD West Lake project). The Amtrak services are secure in their routing for the foreseeable future.

justalurker66 wrote:

Philly Amtrak Fan wrote:The problem is you can't serve Ft. Wayne, South Bend, and Michigan with only two trains and if you go by population I would have to leave South Bend out.

"South Bend has NICTD so they don't need Amtrak" ... *

But then I am probably a decade or two ahead of the discussion. Ohio dumped federal funding for the 3C Corridor - Indiana has a less than pristine track record for supporting trains (although they are improving with the Hoosier State and NICTD West Lake project).

* South Bend gets service from the Wolverines and the Blue Water at Niles, MI. On the Notre Dame website are directions to that Amtrak station. Good service to/from Ann Arbor-Dearborn-Detroit. Service to Chicago needs about $1.5 to $2 Billion to fix South of the Lake for faster trains to reach Chicago Union Station, but you can get there at 'Amtrak average' speed now.
+++++++++++++++++++++++

The faster (110 mph) trains coming St Louis-Springfield-Chicago and Detroit-Dearborn-Ann Arbor-Kalamazoo-Chicago next year, at long last, could produce envy across the Midwest.

Faster trains won't seem far-fetched any longer. They will be a real thing that Illinois and Michigan have and the other states don't have. The politics of funding passenger rail may quickly change in the 'don't have' states.

Woody wrote:The faster (110 mph) trains coming St Louis-Springfield-Chicago and Detroit-Dearborn-Ann Arbor-Kalamazoo-Chicago next year, at long last, could produce envy across the Midwest.

Faster trains won't seem far-fetched any longer. They will be a real thing that Illinois and Michigan have and the other states don't have. The politics of funding passenger rail may quickly change in the 'don't have' states.

Probably the most succinct exposition of the "politics of passenger rail service" I have ever read in these forums.

More coverage including clarification regarding current service. I am also starting to wonder if this may be a non-Amtrak route proposal. Given the location I would not be surprised if this was an Iowa-Pacific initiative. The wording of some of the quotes seems a little strange. People seem to be going out of their way to avoid mentioning Amtrak as the operator. There's also no commemt provided from Amtrak officials which would be very normal for this type of story.

Fort Wayne City Councilman Geoff Paddock said the preliminary work looking into restarting service is expected to begin in January and end by fall. It'll include a rough assessment of the engineering, technical aspects and the environmental impact of restarting regular passenger trips between Chicago and Columbus, Ohio.

The last passenger trains to serve the city ended in 1990, The Journal Gazette (http://bit.ly/2hn9CSW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) reported.

According to Paddock, who served as a spokesman Monday for the Northern Indiana Passenger Rail Association, the proposed service to Chicago would not replace Amtrak service that already stops in Waterloo but does go as far as Fort Wayne.

Pretty sure the last sentence is missing a "not" in "does go".

If it turns out that way, I'll set out the topic. I wondered the exact same thing when it cropped back up.

gokeefe wrote:I am also starting to wonder if this may be a non-Amtrak route proposal. Given the location I would not be surprised if this was an Iowa-Pacific initiative.

I'd expect their name to be attached if it were their initiative. The current proposal does not seem to have any railroad attached. Finding an operator is one of the challenges facing the people behind the proposal.

Considering that Iowa-Pacific uses Amtrak crews and bookings on the Hoosier State I'd expect the same on this line - if IP gets involved at all.

Still moving forward ...

The passenger rail proposal, which would connect Columbus to Chicago by upgrading existing freight lines, is not dead. In fact, initial planning for the western portion of the route is underway, and the City of Columbus recently confirmed that it will financially support the effort, a commitment it was not willing to make late last year.

“The Ginther Administration has committed $250,000 to assist in the Tier 1 Environmental Impact Study of the eastern corridor,” said Robin Davis of the mayor’s office. “Once MORPC (the Mid Ohio Regional Planning Commission) provides the scope of work, the city will be able to move forward with legislation to transfer the funds…we anticipate moving forward in the next few months.”

Another $100,000 has been committed to the project from MORPC and the various Ohio counties along the route, according to a MORPC spokesperson.

“The current phase of planning that began last winter and continued into spring focused on the Gary, Indiana to Lima, Ohio segment,” explained Ken Prendergast, Executive Director of All Aboard Ohio, the pro-rail group that has been following the proposal closely. “With Central Ohio’s contribution, the planning work will add the Lima to Columbus portion…and when this current phase of environmental assessment is completed, they might be able to quickly move into engineering and design.”

HNTB, the consultant hired to examine the western portion of the route, has begun to identify potential station stops and to work out train frequencies and schedules, according to Prendergast.

https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2019/12/ ... -possible/

Passenger rail system in Ohio? One ‘data nerd’ has an idea on how to make it possible.
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When the Elyria native moved with his wife back to Ohio, the return was something of a culture shock. Ohio is the most-populous state in America without a state-supported passenger rail service, according to the transportation advocacy group All Aboard Ohio.

Verhoff now lives in a community about 40 miles outside of Columbus, which is said to be the largest metropolitan area in the entire western hemisphere without passenger rail service. And the capital city’s population is only rising.
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It’s unclear, looking back, how much more the state would have had to kick in to pay for the capital costs of creating the 3C line. The Ohio Rail Development Commission notes the state would’ve been responsible for an estimated $17 million annually in operating and maintenance costs. In 2019, that would have amounted to 0.4 percent of the Ohio Department of Transportation’s multibillion-dollar budget.

Stu Nicholson, the public affairs director with All Aboard Ohio, said the 3C plan was to build a “start-up service of six to eight trains a day, with the intent of following up with upgrades in both speed and frequency of service.”
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The map Verhoff created features seven different rail lines. The most familiar is the “Three-C Corridor,” which adds to the earlier 3C plan by including many stops along the way — in places like Medina, Wooster, Zanesville, Grove City and Lebanon.

There’s a “Western Ohio” line connecting Cincinnati with Toledo; a “Keystone Express” line connecting Knox County in Central Ohio eastward to Steubenville; a “Columbus Outerbelt” line resembling the shape of Route 270; a “Cleveland-Dayton” line running through the middle of Ohio; and a “Lakeshore Line” running parallel with the shore of Lake Erie.

One proposed line that has proven to be popular, Verhoff said, is the “Buckeye Line.” This would run from Toledo southeast-ward through Columbus and down into Appalachia, with stops in Lancaster, Athens and Marietta.
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Few things more powerful than an idea ...

Not exactly the 3C proposal from before:

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/ha ... il-service

discuss expansion of passenger rail service

Earlier in February, Governor Mike DeWine directed the Ohio Rail Development Commission to apply for funding to expand the rail service, with the Federal Railroad Administration's Corridor Identification and Development Program set to choose possible railway corridors within Ohio.

union terminal trains.JPG
By: Felicia JordanPosted at 1:13 PM, Feb 13, 2023 and last updated 12:03 AM, Feb 14, 2023
CINCINNATI — City and Cincinnati Chamber leaders met with Amtrak leadership Monday afternoon to discuss "the potential for expanded passenger rail service in the Cincinnati region," according to a press release.

According to the Cincinnati Chamber's press release, Amtrak has proposed "an increase in train frequencies and new routes with Cincinnati as a hub."

Recent federal infrastructure legislation could make that idea a reality, the press release said.

Earlier in February, Governor Mike DeWine directed the Ohio Rail Development Commission to apply for funding to expand the rail service, with the Federal Railroad Administration's Corridor Identification and Development Program set to choose possible railway corridors within Ohio.

Two corridors have already been identified: Cincinnati-Dayton-Columbus-Cleveland (3CD) and Cleveland-Toledo-Detroit. Cincinnati Mayor Aftab Pureval said he believes the possible service would create "small opportunities and huge opportunities" for the city.
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The federal government granted the state $400 million to build the 3CD corridor but then-Gov. John Kasich killed the project over his opposition to state support for passenger rail.

Well, we will see how far this goes this time. The 3C+ routing has been studied several times since 1980. I just would have liked some of the money that has been spent on these studies not that they have information, just that it has been repeated.

Was disappointed that then Gov.Kasich turned down the federal money, but I do not know if the state could have continued the maintenance funds afterward. It had its plusses, and minuses that we as rail enthusiasts sometimes forget. Then there are all the places in between that want to be included. For comparison, the running time for NYC/Big Four, it was 5 hours Cleveland-Cincinnati with Columbus, Dayton and 5 other stops; it was 6:10 for 6 more stops.

Though some think that the 3C corridor can be compared to the NEC; it isn't the same and travel patterns are not linear in most cases anymore. A 3C corridor would have to include Hopkins, John Glenn Columbus, and Cincinnati/N.Kentucky or very convenient connections. Speaking of air, there is comparatively little service between Cleveland and Cincinnati even before the pandemic. Compare that to the traffic between comparative city pairs along the NEC.

In other ground transportation, there is little bus service compared to the NEC or it seems demand for it. I think there is more traffic for Cleveland to Chicago than Cincinnati to Cleveland.

Corridor ID (ID'd): Cleveland.com

Proposed Amtrak route linking Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati wins key federal funding for future planning

Washington, D.C. – Expanded Amtrak service linking Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati is a step closer to reality, with the awarding of federal funding to study key metrics of the proposed route.

The 3C+D route is one of four in Ohio selected for key new funding from the federal government for planning and development of expanded passenger rail throughout the United States.

New and expanded service between Cleveland, Toledo and Detroit was also selected for the Federal Railroad Administration’s new corridor development program, according to Sen. Sherrod Brown’s office, which was given advance notification of the funding winners.

Routes linking Columbus to Chicago and Pittsburgh and increased service from Cincinnati to New York City, Chicago and Washington, D.C., also will be awarded $500,000 each to put together a service development plan that will outline the expenses, potential ridership, travel times and other key factors involved in expanded service.
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