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  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #610175  by Woodcrest295
 
just saw this article online at the Cleveland Plain Dealer website

Brief excerpt:
Cleveland-Cincinnati passenger rail service plan gets boost from Congress
Posted by Karen Farkas/Plain Dealer Reporter December 04, 2008 23:15PM
Passenger rail service from Cleveland to Cincinnati could be a reality by 2010 if the state gets $100 million in proposed infrastructure stimulus money.

The Ohio Rail Development Commission also intends to apply next year for federal matching grants from a passenger rail bill passed by Congress this fall.
 #610193  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. Woodcrest, we must note that Ohio has only once participated in funding an intercity train - and that was the first incarnation of the Lake Shore June 71 to Feb 72 (or thereabouts). Further, even if their auto industry traffic dependent lines through the state have seen volume greatly diminished, and hence they might even appreciate whatever payments a passenger train would put in the till at the moment, the railroad industry knows that traffic will recover (even if the plant at which autos are loaded now has a "Circle T" painted on the water tower in place of a Pentagonal crest). Their predecessors got snookered once into what I refer to as "The Faustian Pact with the Devil", and I don't think contemporary managers, absent proper remuneration, are about to allow such to reoccur over lines where passenger trains have been gone since A-Day.

While I recognize that the Plain Dealer reported the spokesman for the group advocating the service noted “the railroads are on board’, I would prefer to have a comment from an industry spokesman included within the reportage.

To establish a Corridor system modeled after what the CCC&StL operated through the '50's, is quite consistent with DPM's vision of passenger service (his vision was hardly NARP's); it is also consistent with my personal thoughts on 21st century needs for passenger service. However, if such is to move forth it will not be without massive public funding for additional track capacity - and railroad managements receptive to having those improvements made on their property. At this time, with an economy in the tank second only to that of Michigan, the people of Ohio have more pressing issues on the plate than passenger trains.
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
 #610203  by Woodcrest295
 
this is not my idea. and it looks like the reason why people in Ohio are pursuing this now is because congress just passed more money for amtrak and the new obama admin wants to work on new infrasture quickly ( the line can open in two years). i dont even live in ohio and still think this is an obviously good idea and just reporting on it.
 #611426  by shlustig
 
The plan as published is not realistic because the proposed route is Cleveland / Mansfield / Galion / Marion / Delaware / Columbus. Biggest problem is that there has never been a mainline direct route between Cleveland and Mansfield so the plan has to incorporate land acquisition.

The direct (ex-ERIE) line Mansfield to Galion is no longer intact, and to go via the x-PC route via Crestline requires two slow-speed locations.

At Marion, there has never been a facing-point west to south connection from the joint NYC-ERIE route to either the CSX (x-C&O) or NS (x-PRR) lines, so that will also require new construction.

To get the biggest bang-for-the-buck, the former direct NYC route over which we had 2' 30" service Cleveland / Columbus and 5' service Cincinnati to Cleveland back in the late 1940's and 1950's by trains such as the Cincinnati Mercury, Ohio State Limited and the Xplorer should be utilized. The route is good for 75mph now and incremental improvements could be made for comparatively little cost.
 #611617  by ne plus ultra
 
I'll just say two things:

1) the article itself says the freight companies are on board.
2) the people of Ohio elected the governor who is submitting this proposal on his wishlist of projects that would be part of an economic recovery. While we don't really know what the people of Ohio think, the opinions of elected officials who remain popular in their states (my governor, Blagojevich, would count even less today than he would have yesterday) are the closest surrogates we have, so it's at least fair to make the claim that the people of Ohio would like to see this, perhaps not even despite, but because of the economic situation.
 #611751  by Suburban Station
 
shlustig wrote: To get the biggest bang-for-the-buck, the former direct NYC route over which we had 2' 30" service Cleveland / Columbus and 5' service Cincinnati to Cleveland back in the late 1940's and 1950's by trains such as the Cincinnati Mercury, Ohio State Limited and the Xplorer should be utilized. The route is good for 75mph now and incremental improvements could be made for comparatively little cost.
and at five hours you could easily get tw RT's per day with two train sets.
 #627262  by Tadman
 
I'm bumping this thread into view because of the heavy Ohio discussion over at the "B&O to STL" thread on this forum. If you've got Ohio matters to discuss, this is likely the best place to do it. Thank you for keeping us on topic.
 #627277  by trainhq
 
The 3 C stuff has been around a while. They've been trying to bring this back for, what, about a decade,
even longer. No one seems to be able to get some $$$ to do it. Now, I would say if they could get it back up
with only investment in a locomotive and cars, that would be pretty cost effective. I don't think there would be
any doubt people would use it. They would, however, need to do it right. That means at least 2 trains a day
each way, with schedules designed for potential long distance commuters. That would mean a train into (and out
of) Cleveland and Cincinnati from Columbus each A.M. and P.M., two crossing trains each day and then a late train
out from each location back to Columbus. That would give two roundrips each way, plus early and late commuter/Columbus
service out of Cleveland and Cincinnati. I think that would attract the most passengers.
 #652498  by jonmurr
 
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... /-1/NEWS10

In a turn of events as least somewhat surprising to this poster, The 3C corridor money in the Ohio transportation bill survived the GOP-controlled Senate, and heads to conference committee to be finally hammered out with the Dem- controlled house.
It's not over yet, of course, but it looks like state subsidized trains are coming to Ohio.
I await the forthcoming Amtrak study with baited breath.
Last edited by jonmurr on Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 #652678  by Tadman
 
I'm just as surprised as you. I was a four year Ohio resident and I never expected the program to get this far. On the other hand, I won't believe it until the train is rolling on rails. Even then I'll be more of a believer if it rolls for more than 1-2 years. Cinci built a subway, tunnels and all, that never ran. The state had a demonstration train about 20 years back, consisting of a geep and surplus SP gallery car, for this same 3C service - it hardly turned a wheel. In other words, the state has seen passenger train projects go further than this, all for nothing.

Sorry to rain on the parade - I'm definitely a supporter of state-sponsored corridors.
 #652752  by transitrider
 
Why Amtrak didn't have a thruway bus connection in Ohio and I noticed they don't at all, that is real bad and that explains folks in Columbus was very pissed and didn't like the idea but with this 3C, we will see.
 #652777  by jonmurr
 
I think the Thruway was dropped 1Q 06. The station stop times for the 3 Ohio trains made the Columbus departure for the bus awful any way you looked at it. I can't find my timetable right now but it has been at least 2 years.
 #653051  by shlustig
 
Ohio has seen about several demonstration trips over this route utilizing just about every type of equipment which Amtrak has operated (Amfleet, Turbotrain, and foreign).

When a Cleveland - Columbus trip was considered as part of the I-71 5-year rebuild, CSX wanted 12 miles of 2nd main track put in between Greenwich and Vernon Jct. (north of Crestline).

Trackage now should be good for 79 mph, with incremental improvements made after the service has begun. Heck, in the 1950's we had 5' service from Cincinnati to Cleveland with multiple stops en route!

One flaw in the plan is that the proposed route runs via Mansfield, and there has never been a direct mainline between Cleveland and Mansfield. Best route is that of the former NYC which is now split between CSX and NS.
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