Potential for more dual mode locomotives?

any locomotive has to be build according to certain EPA standards, passenger locomotives will stay at that standard for life of locomotive.
unless any type of propulsion changes are made like different type of engine or HEP added or deleted etc then it has to be upgraded to new standards.
The Genesis, DE30 and DM30 were build under tier 0 standards, current standard is 3 new locomotives delivered after certain date are to be tier 4.

DutchRailnut wrote:any locomotive has to be build according to certain EPA standards, passenger locomotives will stay at that standard for life of locomotive. unless any type of propulsion changes are made like different type of engine or HEP added or deleted etc then it has to be upgraded to new standards.

does that rule out future DM to DE conversions like 503/427?

no as long as they do not change propulsion engine to other type.

If I might make a suggestion, how about the NJT APL-45 dual-mode locomotives? If the LIRR had dual-mode locomotives which had pantographs and used the overhead A.C. electrification instead of the third rail, problems with "gapping" would be eliminated, and so would the need for two locomotives on each train to span the long gaps over the switches. Of course, the transition between modes would have to be made quickly in LIC, perhaps as trains passed through Harold, because the A.C. overhead ends west of Harold Underjump.
One problem would be the fact the Caemmerer Yard is third-rail only.

despite all rail fan expertize, I am sure some of the professionals have looked into each and every possibility, but hey write them a letter with your Idea's...

Does anyone know if the ALP45's can change modes while they are moving, or do they have to be stopped? What about the P32 or the DM30AC? It should not be a problem if a yard is 3rd rail only because they can just put it in diesel to go in there. ALP45's are commonly run on lines with no electrification and run in full diesel mode the entire way. The only issue is the type of dual mode that they are. P32's and DM30AC's according to wikipedia are what is called primarily diesel. This means that they run in diesel at all times, except in areas where diesel is not allowed and electric must be used. The AlP45's are fully dual mode. This means that when NJ Transit uses them, they always use electric when they are in an electrified zone, and diesel when not under the wire. Because they are designed to be run in electric mode whenever possible, they have smaller fuel tanks than than most diesel locomotives. However, they should be able to run LIRR because they do make a 190 mile round trip to Port Jervis on occasion in full diesel mode for every mile. Also, C3's have different HEP than most cars do. To my knowledge, all NJ Transit cars use the standard HEP, and so do ALP45's. For this reason, they are not compatible with the C3's.

The FL-9,P-32DM,and DM30 can change over on the move,currenty the ALP-45's can only change over when stopped,
not sure if BBD designed it to change over on the move,or tap change between 12.5 kv,25hz to 25kv/12.5kv,60hz wire
on the move.

I've never heard the term Primary Diesel. That's a Wikipedia phrase that some know-it-all buff coined. The DM30ACs can be converted while the train is in motion, whenever authorized to do so. On runs to and from Penn, they convert upon arrival in Jamaica for westbounds and upon clearing Woodside for eastbounds. Some Engineers will start the engines right before they exit the tunnels and then once they're out of the tunnel, idle the engines up and convert it to Diesel mode so they don't have to deal with the eastbound uphill grade and third rail gaps traveling through F and Harold. Same holds true for Dual Modes laying up in West Side Yard. It's much easier to get it up the hill in diesel mode.

Backshophoss wrote:The FL-9,P-32DM,and DM30 can change over on the move,currenty the ALP-45's can only change over when stopped,
not sure if BBD designed it to change over on the move,or tap change between 12.5 kv,25hz to 25kv/12.5kv,60hz wire
on the move.

IIRC, that restriction is only in place because of the increased risk of the pan bringing down wires if mode changes were made on the fly. Otherwise, there is logically no technical reason that making a mode change on the fly couldn't be done. Correct me if I'm mistaken.

Since you can't "bring down" third rail by doing an on the fly mode change in that type of territory, such a restriction does not exist for the P32AC-DMs or the DM30ACs.

emfinite wrote:Some Engineers will start the engines right before they exit the tunnels and then once they're out of the tunnel, idle the engines up and convert it to Diesel mode so they don't have to deal with the eastbound uphill grade and third rail gaps traveling through F and Harold. Same holds true for Dual Modes laying up in West Side Yard. It's much easier to get it up the hill in diesel mode.

Is the reason the motors can be supplied more in D down to LIRR imposed limits on current draw on the third rail?

The only restrictions on the P32AC-DM units are the shoes must be down prior to coming into third rail territory. The DM30 units have the pick up shoes down all the time and are not retractable.

only Amtrak P32acdm, as MN P32acdm have non-retractable shoes.