CSX Derailment near Amsterdam, NY - 6/27/13

I was going to ask the same question. The Mohawk River is showing over flood stage at Utica.

Lockport got hit hard today, it's raining hard right now in Binghamton and the cell is going right up along the D&H, places all over have had damage.

Apparently the eastbound train went past three signals - an advance approach, an approach and a home signal - before colliding with the westbound train. If this is correct then one must why this happened. If this is not correct, and it may not be, then there must be some reason for the collision. Maybe CSX will provide an explanation.

Had they cut over the new signal system in this stretch?

I have heard the same rumor: One freight blew a stop signal and side-swiped the passing freight. But as with anything, need to wait and see what the NTSB has to report after their investigation is complete

my question was going to be, where exactly did this accident occur?

Here's a picture from the Utica Dispatch....same picture that was in the Buffalo News today. Kinda surprised that no one was killed. The nose of the locomotive looks kinda deep in the dirt.

http://www.uticaod.com/news/x853677573/ ... z2XZ0X0brV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not sure I understand how they swiped each other in this area. Was one train not far enough in a siding?

SST wrote:Here's a picture from the Utica Dispatch....same picture that was in the Buffalo News today. Kinda surprised that no one was killed. The nose of the locomotive looks kinda deep in the dirt.

http://www.uticaod.com/news/x853677573/ ... z2XZ0X0brV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not sure I understand how they swiped each other in this area. Was one train not far enough in a siding?

They were on track one. 641 was crossing over from one to two.

MBTA F40PH-2C 1050 wrote:my question was going to be, where exactly did this accident occur?

I may be wrong, but I believe it was right here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/212706353" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
aka http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=42.94200,-74.40801" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is this the same area where NS 1073 ( Penn Central ) was side swiped?

The "what" seems to be widely reported - a westbound crossing from Track 1 to Track 2, was struck mid-train by an eastbound on Track 1 which SHOULD have stopped at the home signal. The "why" - signal problem, crew error, or some other cause - will probably not be announced for a while.

From what Ive heard at work it sounds like crew error, they missed an approach signal.

Yes the new signals have been cut in through the area have been for about three months now an approach is the same with CSX as it was with Conrail. If there was a advance approach signal displayed even if it was misread it would have caused the train to slow to not exceeding slow speed.

A "double yoke" a solid yellow over solid yellow on Conrail would have been a slow approach, slow speed approaching next signal. CSX it is an advance approach, be prepared to stop at second signal

I have heard from two sources that the eastbound train hit the seventeenth head car of the westbound which means that a head-on collision was missed by only a few seconds so as bad as the wreck was it could have been much worse in human terms.

Tapes will show whether or not there was a brake application prior to the collision and whether or not the eastbound was whistling for any grade crossings. Not fair to speculate on a cause right now. One veteran engineer told me that heading east at that time of day you are looking directly into the sun too, unless there was cloud cover this could be a factor, although if an engineer cannot see a signal for any reason he has to assume it is showing the most unfavorable indication possible which would require him to stop the train.

NYC had automatic train stop on the water level route. Too bad it does not exist today.

Any news on when this line might re-open to some traffic?

Thanks,
Charlie

do these signals flash as attention-getters? are there strobe-light signals that activate when trains are switching tracks? shouldn't the sto have called the east bound to give a heads-up? is there an e-mail facility in each cab? in this era of instant communications i find it strange to totally rely on fixed signals. this preventable accident indicates to me that back-up train control via smart phones should be considered. ken patrick

KEN PATRICK wrote:do these signals flash as attention-getters? are there strobe-light signals that activate when trains are switching tracks? shouldn't the sto have called the east bound to give a heads-up? is there an e-mail facility in each cab? in this era of instant communications i find it strange to totally rely on fixed signals. this preventable accident indicates to me that back-up train control via smart phones should be considered. ken patrick

You're new to all this, aren't you?

The answers are no, no, no, and no. Since we don't know it was crew error yet we'll stay general. But signals have had clear meanings for 100 years, a red signal is preceeded by other signals giving advance warning, and each day thousands of trains operate safely using that system. Railroads are adapting new systems using GPS-type technology but it's not something that can be slapped into place overnight. Emails and smart phones are not practical for many reasons.