CSX Derailment near Amsterdam, NY - 6/27/13

KEN PATRICK wrote:do these signals flash as attention-getters? are there strobe-light signals that activate when trains are switching tracks? shouldn't the sto have called the east bound to give a heads-up? is there an e-mail facility in each cab? in this era of instant communications i find it strange to totally rely on fixed signals. this preventable accident indicates to me that back-up train control via smart phones should be considered. ken patrick

charlie6017 wrote:Any news on when this line might re-open to some traffic?

Thanks,
Charlie

Trains are starting to move east at Dewitt 4pm.

Got back from a NARCOA run to LF around 5 PM. We saw 3 eastbounds a one westbound while loading up. Can't say though if both tracks are open.

Good deal. I hope the injured train crew can make a speedy recovery!

Hear all kinds of trains on the Mohawk feed running on the Mohawk Sub., but no Amtrak #49. One of the foreman commented about rapids near MP 172.

Andy

In the past few hours, several sets of locomotives have been traveling "light" (without trains) Westbound through Rochester.

Scot

One track opened mostly WBs 48/49 should be running today.

This accident and blockage got me wondering: How many trains going thru Albany actually stop in NY vs pass through NY? So, if a train is coming from Chicago and goes to Boston, what other route could it take to get around this?

erie2937 wrote:NYC had automatic train stop on the water level route. Too bad it does not exist today.

Cross posted from the Amtrak section, message title ICC and FRA Passenger Speed Rules:

Hearsay from a National Transportation Safety Board report at http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2001/RAR0104.pdf about a rear end collision East of Syracuse, N.Y. on 2/5/1:

At one time, the Chicago main line through the accident area was equipped with an intermittent automatic train stop system that was designed to automatically apply the air brakes and stop the train should the engineer fail to acknowledge an audible alarm within a few seconds of passing a more restrictive wayside signal. This feature, however, was removed with the approval of the FRA in the early 1970s after the Penn Central Railroad was created from the merger of the Pennsylvania and New York Central Railroads. (Footnote) 27
27 Automatic train stop was installed by the New York Central System railroad through the accident area from Croton, New York, to Englewood, Illinois, between 1922 and 1934.

charlie 1607 et al. not new to this. made my railroad 'bones' by demonstrating, against railroad 'facts' that ttx flats could be modified from 220 to 286 for small money. 20 years, 5 patents, 800 cars, 3000 loads/year and intense fleet management gives me the experience to challenge railroad operations practices. i expected my questions would generate knowledgable responses not mocking and 'it's been ok for 100 years'. my point is this wreck was a communications not track failure. available and inexpensive communications devices coupled with routine crew/sto discussion would have prevented this . what did this cost? ken patrick
.

to answer SST's question these are the detour routes that were used:

NYSW from North Jersey to Binghamton to Syracuse

NS from North Jersey across Pa to Berea, Ohio

CSX south from Selkirk to Maryland and then across Sand Patch towards Pittsburgh and then eventually connecting with the mainline again out in Greenwich, Ohio

KEN PATRICK wrote:charlie 1607 et al. not new to this. made my railroad 'bones' by demonstrating, against railroad 'facts' that ttx flats could be modified from 220 to 286 for small money. 20 years, 5 patents, 800 cars, 3000 loads/year and intense fleet management gives me the experience to challenge railroad operations practices. i expected my questions would generate knowledgable responses not mocking and 'it's been ok for 100 years'. my point is this wreck was a communications not track failure. available and inexpensive communications devices coupled with routine crew/sto discussion would have prevented this . what did this cost? ken patrick
.

It's always nice when the DS comes on the radio and tells you whats going. You are taking abc siding and waiting for x trains or that they need to make some moves through CP XYZ before you can go. But in all reality, we are suppose to be qualified on our territory and if the engineer isn't taking appropriate action then the conductor is suppose to take action. Know the territory and know your signals. Sometimes easier said than done and we don't know the facts yet of what actually happened. All the flashing lights in the world or email alerts won't stop this from happening. A form of PTC will help though. An attentive crew who has been able to get proper rest will also help. And yes, proper job briefings would help as well. I believe the more electronic devices in the cab the more distractions. Things can happen way too fast out there. Take your eyes off the tracks for 2 minutes (to look at a couple different screens) and it is amazing what you can miss...

This coming from a qualified conductor on a class 1 RR....

KEN PATRICK wrote:charlie 1607 et al. not new to this. made my railroad 'bones' by demonstrating, against railroad 'facts' that ttx flats could be modified from 220 to 286 for small money. 20 years, 5 patents, 800 cars, 3000 loads/year and intense fleet management gives me the experience to challenge railroad operations practices. i expected my questions would generate knowledgable responses not mocking and 'it's been ok for 100 years'. my point is this wreck was a communications not track failure. available and inexpensive communications devices coupled with routine crew/sto discussion would have prevented this . what did this cost? ken patrick
.

Good on you for your "patents" and "fleet management", but seeing that you are a CPA (again, good on you), you are not any more qualified
on railroad operations than I am. I'll gladly defer to folks like "BR&P" and "Malfunction Jct" because they have been there and done that.

You kind of are coming across as a "know it all" and nobody likes those, sir.

Charlie

lakeshoredave wrote:to answer SST's question these are the detour routes that were used:

NYSW from North Jersey to Binghamton to Syracuse

NS from North Jersey across Pa to Berea, Ohio

CSX south from Selkirk to Maryland and then across Sand Patch towards Pittsburgh and then eventually connecting with the mainline again out in Greenwich, Ohio

And some CSX Eastbounds between Buffalo and Albany were routed over the NS Southern Tier main from Buffalo to Binghamton, then up CP from Binghamton to Schenectady/Albany.
At least one "Salad Bowl Express" train, with UP Power, took that route on Friday.

Scot

charlie6017 wrote:

KEN PATRICK wrote:charlie 1607 ken patrick
.

Good on you for your "patents" and "fleet management", but seeing that you are a CPA (again, good on you), you are not any more qualified
on railroad operations than I am. I'll gladly defer to folks like "BR&P" and "Malfunction Jct" because they have been there and done that.

You kind of are coming across as a "know it all" and nobody likes those, sir.

Charlie

I absolutely SECOND THIS MOTION!!!!!
Noel Weaver