Amtrak/LIRR Moynihan Train Hall

Gilbert B Norman wrote:So long as we seem to be "hopscotching the world for stations" at this topic, this is the Berlin Hauptbahnhof I recall.

Well, that was 1990 and in East Berlin; I believe there was still visible bomb damage.

Nevertheless, I was of thought that the new "Hbf" is a run-through station, and I thought the term "Hbf" was reserved for stub end terminal stations such as at Frankfurt/Main; apparently not the case.

Interesting photo :o)

The term Hauptbahnhof just literally means "main station", and does not refer to stub end or through tracks. Almost all cities big enough to have more than one station in the metropolitan area has one, and most of them will be run through (Hamburg comes to mind as another big one)

electricron wrote:

Don31 wrote:

george matthews wrote:The pictures make me think of the new Berlin Hauptbahnhof. That has been a project of the scope that New York needs. Is the US system capable of doing that?

The Berlin station is nothing short of awesome. Technically the US is capable of doing that, but we wont for a whole host of reasons.

Really? Are you sure? Isn't FEC proposing to build a modern station in downtown Miami? Isn't Denver building a new modern downtown station right now?

True, but not on the scale or complexity of Berlin

bleet wrote:Article from the NY Times today about 'visions' for a future Penn Station.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/29/arts/ ... f=nyregion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Clearly no thought given to anything related to train travel, but I think the conversation about the future of the station is good. Limiting the Garden's lease to 15 years... the Gateway tunnel project... and things like this make me feel that something will eventually get done. Of course I'll be riding trains in heaven by then but whatever.

Given the glacial pace of any construction project in Manhattan, it will cost billions and take decades to get very little done.

My fear is that the 15 year renewal horizon on Madison Square Garden is just a way for politicians for force the owners to lobby and make political donations for years leading up to the renewal. It's a creepy political fundraising move.

In the end, putting a popular sports arena over a train station was a brilliantly efficient move back in the 1960s. Today, we'd a call it green, because it is indeed a very environmentally friendly way of transporting tens of thousands of sports fans. It decreased, or should I say, prevented, urban sprawl. It was a good move on every level except for aesthetics.

goodnightjohnwayne wrote:

bleet wrote:Article from the NY Times today about 'visions' for a future Penn Station.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/29/arts/ ... f=nyregion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Clearly no thought given to anything related to train travel, but I think the conversation about the future of the station is good. Limiting the Garden's lease to 15 years... the Gateway tunnel project... and things like this make me feel that something will eventually get done. Of course I'll be riding trains in heaven by then but whatever.

Given the glacial pace of any construction project in Manhattan, it will cost billions and take decades to get very little done.

My fear is that the 15 year renewal horizon on Madison Square Garden is just a way for politicians for force the owners to lobby and make political donations for years leading up to the renewal. It's a creepy political fundraising move.

In the end, putting a popular sports arena over a train station was a brilliantly efficient move back in the 1960s. Today, we'd a call it green, because it is indeed a very environmentally friendly way of transporting tens of thousands of sports fans. It decreased, or should I say, prevented, urban sprawl. It was a good move on every level except for aesthetics.

I agree, the addition of MSG was a brilliant idea, though the demolition of old Pennsylvania Station understandably left a bad taste in the mouths of New Yorkers (pardon the pun.) You're right on all counts.

Can we just band together and lobby for New York, Amtrak, and the other interested parties to jack up MSG another three stories, gut NYP down to platform level, and start over?

um, or we can just enjoy a beautiful station in the renovated farley building like the plan calls for? MSG moving isn't a reality, im just looking forward to seeing Moynihan Station take shape and I hope it speeds up already.

DanD3815 wrote:um, or we can just enjoy a beautiful station in the renovated farley building like the plan calls for? MSG moving isn't a reality, im just looking forward to seeing Moynihan Station take shape and I hope it speeds up already.

Too bad the Moynihan/Farley station is flawed. I'd rather hold out and wait for a proper station at the MSG site than for some compromise that's further away from where people want to be

Gilbert B Norman wrote:

Nevertheless, I was of thought that the new "Hbf" is a run-through station, and I thought the term "Hbf" was reserved for stub end terminal stations such as at Frankfurt/Main; apparently not the case.

It just means principal station. The new Berlin station is largely all new.

New York is going to need the capacity for more trains as the problems of oil burning become more obviously damaging.

Don31 wrote:

george matthews wrote:The pictures make me think of the new Berlin Hauptbahnhof. That has been a project of the scope that New York needs. Is the US system capable of doing that?

The Berlin station is nothing short of awesome. Technically the US is capable of doing that, but we wont for a whole host of reasons.

I bet such a design would be done for the air passenger terminal, if the also sorely needed fourth major NYC area airport project ever gets off the ground. So to speak.

Ken W2KB wrote:

Don31 wrote:

george matthews wrote:The pictures make me think of the new Berlin Hauptbahnhof. That has been a project of the scope that New York needs. Is the US system capable of doing that?

The Berlin station is nothing short of awesome. Technically the US is capable of doing that, but we wont for a whole host of reasons.

I bet such a design would be done for the air passenger terminal, if the also sorely needed fourth major NYC area airport project ever gets off the ground. So to speak.

I just sent you a PM Ken.

george matthews wrote:

Gilbert B Norman wrote:

Nevertheless, I was of thought that the new "Hbf" is a run-through station, and I thought the term "Hbf" was reserved for stub end terminal stations such as at Frankfurt/Main; apparently not the case.

It just means principal station. The new Berlin station is largely all new.

New York is going to need the capacity for more trains as the problems of oil burning become more obviously damaging.

Perhaps a bit OT by now, but the station shown as Berlin Hauptbahnhof in Mr. Norman's link of June 2 is mislabeled (presumably by Google) -- it's actually Frankfurt/Main. Berlin had a Hauptbahnhof for a brief period, I think in the 1980's (with both through and stub tracks), as an ego trip for Erich Honecker, but since World War II it had been named Ostbahnhof, and is again.

ExCon90 wrote:

george matthews wrote:

Gilbert B Norman wrote:

Nevertheless, I was of thought that the new "Hbf" is a run-through station, and I thought the term "Hbf" was reserved for stub end terminal stations such as at Frankfurt/Main; apparently not the case.

It just means principal station. The new Berlin station is largely all new.

New York is going to need the capacity for more trains as the problems of oil burning become more obviously damaging.

Perhaps a bit OT by now, but the station shown as Berlin Hauptbahnhof in Mr. Norman's link of June 2 is mislabeled (presumably by Google) -- it's actually Frankfurt/Main. Berlin had a Hauptbahnhof for a brief period, I think in the 1980's (with both through and stub tracks), as an ego trip for Erich Honecker, but since World War II it had been named Ostbahnhof, and is again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Central_Station

Let's try to keep this to the Moynihan proposal, and discuss foreign rail stations and Gateway ONLY when it relates to Moynihan. It's interesting, sure, but not a whole page.

Thanks.

Madison Square Garden Loses Its Totally Epic Permit War
Story courtesy of Curbed NY

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2013/07/2 ... it_war.php

Wednesday, July 24, 2013, by Hana R. Alberts

After an absolutely intense battle, Madison Square Garden has just been stymied. The City Council voted today to grant the embattled arena just 10 more years to operate in its current spot—it had been gunning for a permit in perpetuity—with the idea that it could soon relocate to make way for a grander, snazzier, starchitect-designed Penn Station. The Municipal Art Society, which has essentially championed throwing MSG under the bus to make way for a new Penn and along the way gained support from politicians like Scott Stringer and Christine Quinn as well as bold-faced names like Barry Diller and Bette Midler, is obviously thrilled. Quoth MAS chief Vin Cipolla: "Great projects are in New Yorkers' DNA, they define who we are and who we become." Hold your horses, buddy. We've got awhile before anything actually happens on the site.

Meanwhile, the official word from MSG itself, for which Spike Lee and various sports greats advocated in front of the Council (to no avail, apparently), reflects... avoidance? Denial? Optimism?

Madison Square Garden has operated at its current site for generations, and has been proud to bring New Yorkers some of the greatest and most iconic moments in sports and entertainment. We now look forward to the reopening of the arena in fall 2013, following the completion of our historic three-year, nearly billion dollar transformation, which will ensure our future is as bright as our celebrated past.

10 years sounds like an eternity lol.

It will be interesting to see what happens 10 years from now... if the city doesn't have the money available to build, will they extend the lease again?