ALP-45DP's - Usage and Delivery

DutchRailnut wrote:...FDNY has no powers on railroads....

Apparently they do.

I am really curious about the real actual reason they have not run revenue trains with the 45's into/through nyp....

25Hz wrote:I am really curious about the real actual reason they have not run revenue trains with the 45's into/through nyp....

Think about it

If they ran a train into NYP with an ALP45 right now, there would be an immediate push by RVL folks especially for service. There is no room during rush hours to add another train. So an existing train would have to be cancelled to accomodate a new train. And what are you going to do with those folks on that train that was cancelled? Going have to expand capacity on other trains first before a train can be "cancelled" - And thats not exactly easy right now either with the equipment issues from Hurricane Sandy.

I think you will see them before too long, but they are still getting the bugs totally out of them. There have been some kinks, but as far as I know, they have been behaving lately and have really shown their worth with the power problems on the Hoboken side.

there are a few other reasons I can think of, one being the success its going to be on say the RVL. The train is going to be packed from the minute it runs. Going to have new riders, going to have riders shift the trains they ride to ride the one seat ride, going to have teh regular folks who don't care where the train ends up, but just want to go to Newark. So rush hour trains are full on the RVL now with the transfer in Newark. 6 and 7 cars full. Add in the new riders and we are talking about a 8/9/10 car train. Now we are talking about more equipment, and more locos, maybe 2 on a train and a whole other bunch of issues.

Its not as easy as simply adding a train and seeing what happens. NJT found that out with MidTown Direct in 1996. I think they are going to start by extending a train to Long Branch or Dover or MSU with '45s. RVL folks are going to be PO'ed, but I simply don't see the capacity to run RVL or any new services any time soon, during peak hours at least.

So i guess we just gotta wait till the sandy issues are fixed and we get the rest of the multilevel 2's...?

Jtgshu wrote:

25Hz wrote:I am really curious about the real actual reason they have not run revenue trains with the 45's into/through nyp....

Think about it

If they ran a train into NYP with an ALP45 right now, there would be an immediate push by RVL folks especially for service. There is no room during rush hours to add another train. So an existing train would have to be cancelled to accomodate a new train. And what are you going to do with those folks on that train that was cancelled? Going have to expand capacity on other trains first before a train can be "cancelled" - And thats not exactly easy right now either with the equipment issues from Hurricane Sandy.

I think you will see them before too long, but they are still getting the bugs totally out of them. There have been some kinks, but as far as I know, they have been behaving lately and have really shown their worth with the power problems on the Hoboken side.

there are a few other reasons I can think of, one being the success its going to be on say the RVL. The train is going to be packed from the minute it runs. Going to have new riders, going to have riders shift the trains they ride to ride the one seat ride, going to have teh regular folks who don't care where the train ends up, but just want to go to Newark. So rush hour trains are full on the RVL now with the transfer in Newark. 6 and 7 cars full. Add in the new riders and we are talking about a 8/9/10 car train. Now we are talking about more equipment, and more locos, maybe 2 on a train and a whole other bunch of issues.

Its not as easy as simply adding a train and seeing what happens. NJT found that out with MidTown Direct in 1996. I think they are going to start by extending a train to Long Branch or Dover or MSU with '45s. RVL folks are going to be PO'ed, but I simply don't see the capacity to run RVL or any new services any time soon, during peak hours at least.

How many mutlilevels is a single 45 rated to handle? 6 or 7?

It can be rated to handle 34 cars, but reality is what matters. If anything more than 6 for example is going to hurt the schedule or cause problems on the grade into/out of NYP in the tunnels, then they won't be more than 6. If that number is 8, then there won't be more than 8. We have seen time and time again, that specs and stats adn things that "should" work don't always and sometimes the best test is just going for it and trying different combinations and seeing what ACTUALLY works.

I remember the 5 MLV 44 hauled trains. Boy were they slow. The 45's don't seem to have any issue accelerating but as JT said the grades will tell how many cars will end up being used.

25Hz wrote:I remember the 5 MLV 44 hauled trains. Boy were they slow. The 45's don't seem to have any issue accelerating but as JT said the grades will tell how many cars will end up being used.

they weren't slow dude, sure they would be slower than a 5 car ALP46 train, but the '44s handled the ACES trains and a P40 quite well. They had NO problems getting up to speed, and getting up to speed rather quickly, towing 4 MLs and a dead diesel which would roughly equal 2 more cars.

34 cars? That would look like one of those trains in India!!

25Hz wrote:So i guess we just gotta wait till the sandy issues are fixed and we get the rest of the multilevel 2's...?

Not like the signal missing in the North Tube is really slowing down anything(unless they swing traffic on 3)... The ERT's are back to normal.

Jtgshu wrote:Its not as easy as simply adding a train and seeing what happens. NJT found that out with MidTown Direct in 1996. I think they are going to start by extending a train to Long Branch or Dover or MSU with '45s. RVL folks are going to be PO'ed, but I simply don't see the capacity to run RVL or any new services any time soon, during peak hours at least.

I came to this same conclusion a while ago here. And that is, while it might make "logical" sense, the practical situation is going to result in a MTD like surge in ridership with everyone clamoring for those runs. Even if we forget about the tunnel capacity for a second (obviously a big thing to forget), NJT would suddenly be forced to order more dual modes with the surge. Because of this situation, I don't think we'll ever see a single dual mode on the RVL heading in to NYP until a second tunnel is built. Insert your own date for that project. Even a weekend only or off peak situation would prove to be a non-starter, as that riding public would demand rush hour service when it is most needed.

Given that we have these things and won't be using them as initially intended, it would make sense that extending runs to Bay Head and Dover on the MBL would be the most probable.

4534 was working on the Gladstone shuttle this past weekend with 5 Comet Vs. As a side note, the previous weekend we had a Metro North cab with 4 NJT Comet Vs.

I caught 4534 yesterday on train 413 at Far Hills; the consist was 4 Comet IIs and a Comet V cab car:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3319574

A closer look at 4534 with the "100th ALP" decal:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3319575

Later on 4510 had a nice matched set of 5 Comet Vs on train 417 at Stirling:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=419555

Rob

morris&essex4ever wrote:34 cars? That would look like one of those trains in India!!

With all those people riding outside?

Has anyone heard of any plans (once the dual modes are able to use the Hudson River Tunnels) to extend existing trains of Midtown Direct west of Dover and prehaps extending existing Midtown Direct from MSU west of MSU direct along the Boonton Line direct access to NY Penn Station sometime in 2013?

MODERATOR'S NOTE: Merged this new topic in with the existing Dual Mode thread as they are related.