PL42AC

It was said that when the GP38s and MP15s were to be retired, the Railroad wanted to order the next generation hood unit (which would be the current day GP60). It could be easily modified with a HEP sled and would eliminate the need for a bulky powerpack or P-engine. You could run it either direction without a problem, you could switch with it, but you couldn't slow down fast enough with it.

One reason that stands out as to why the LIRR special ordered the DE/DM30ACs from EMD is the braking rate. The LIRR needed a locomotive that could travel at 80MPH when needed, but also slow itself fast enough to stop within the LIRR's closely positioned blocks. A locomotive manufacturer could get any engine to travel at 80MPH, that's the easy part, but for the braking rate to be as rapid as the LIRR wanted was a different story. It was realized that every locomotive that GE and GM had on their shelves at the time did not have the braking rate that the LIRR needed, so they had no choice but to custom build their own locomotive. This is why the LIRR doesn't have a P32 on the head end of every train.

Joe

I must say, More and more information about the purchasing of the DE/Ms comes to surface. Had the public and buff's known some of this in 97/98 maybe the DEs would have been respected more.

So of the GP60 worked out, would they have baught boms or the C3s would have still be the main stay, and would the GP60 be a GP60DM and fit in the tubes?

I'm asking since the GP38s did not fit.

I think my self-appointed, off-topic remark made about as much sense as AmtrakPhil's original statement. He's worried about *looks* while the crews are worried about reliability and the folks riding the train just want to get home (or get to work).

Phil likes the looks of the PL42 so therefore it makes a good potential locomotive for the LIRR. 7285 likes the FA's. I liked the FL9AC's. Turns out none of them were the right answer for the LIRR in 2006.

-otto-

I don't think it was a matter of the GP38-2s not being able to phyically fit in the east river tunnels, but more of a matter of there being no "electric mode" option. Can't have a locomotive running diesel in the tunnels.

The PL42ac is not answer for LIRR either, its nearly a foot heigher than the C3's, the height is about same as a F40.

Everyone: the PL42 is better looking than the DE/DM30s. The designer was Cesar Vergera-who designed the Genesis engines. I an on the fence on his designs-the Genesis is just a UGLY engine. I would have liked the LIRR to have gotten the late 80s-early 90s version of the F59PH. - the GO Transit/Metrolink version. The redesigned late 90s "streamlined" version is not really attractive to me either. Just my opinions...MACTRAXX

The F59 is even 6" higher than a F40PH

MACTRAXX wrote:Everyone: the PL42 is better looking than the DE/DM30s. The designer was Cesar Vergera-who designed the Genesis engines. I an on the fence on his designs-the Genesis is just a UGLY engine. I would have liked the LIRR to have gotten the late 80s-early 90s version of the F59PH. - the GO Transit/Metrolink version. The redesigned late 90s "streamlined" version is not really attractive to me either. Just my opinions...MACTRAXX

So correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying it's more important that an engine be selected on looks rather than performance, reliability, and actual need?

Unfortunately, that's exactly how the DE/DM's were selected.

emfinite wrote:One reason that stands out as to why the LIRR special ordered the DE/DM30ACs from EMD is the braking rate. The LIRR needed a locomotive that could travel at 80MPH when needed, but also slow itself fast enough to stop within the LIRR's closely positioned blocks. A locomotive manufacturer could get any engine to travel at 80MPH, that's the easy part, but for the braking rate to be as rapid as the LIRR wanted was a different story. It was realized that every locomotive that GE and GM had on their shelves at the time did not have the braking rate that the LIRR needed, so they had no choice but to custom build their own locomotive. This is why the LIRR doesn't have a P32 on the head end of every train.

The IG ripped the LIRR a new one over this purchase, and showed how their "slot" specification was based on clear tracks and empty trains. If you want a copy of the report you can PM me and I can send it to you (if you don't already have it)

I think everyone who cares now knows that the DE/DM purchase was a bad one -- but not bad enough to consider scrapping the entire fleet.

If the LIRR was able to suddenly purchase P32ACDMs tomorrow, I don't think that's the solution either. Morris Park & Co. would now have to stock GE parts and learn how to repair Gennies and the DE/DM fleet.

I would hope that the entire DE/C3 fiasco taught the folks in Jamaica that it's always better to modify off-the-shelf gear rather than design from scratch when it comes to somethinhg like a locomotive -- this isn't your father's LIRR -- all of the creative minds in M of E and the related departments retired a long time ago.

Nester

Chef: I do really like their look-BUT-they were designed as commuter engines and might have fit the LIRRs bill. A shorter height variation could have been built for the LIRR in blue and ORANGE-one of my personal favorite color combinations-or the MNCR style blue and burgundy-a really nice paint scheme. Instead of off the shelf the LIRR went for the DE/DM30s as we all know-I do agree that this was NOT the way to go but now we have to live with it. Their front ends is what makes them unattractive-a F40ish front end on that car body would look interesting.. The PL42 is better looking,sure...but it is what is under that hood that counts!! As a whole I am not too enamored with today's passenger locomotive design..with exceptions such as the AEM7/ALP44 which look fine. I just wanted to clarify myself and offer some insight on this..MACTRAXX