Pings and zip cars

Pat:

I just wanted to clarify something you said. Technically, pings were steam/diesel hauled cars. They were originally built as MUs and had the traction motors and all the equipment associated with electric operation. When they were converted to steam operation, they lost weight and therefore bounced like a ping pong ball! But we all knew you were referring to the MP-54's.

You also mentioned the fogged windows on the Zip cars. I don't recall an original problem with these cars re their windows (I rode them when they were new and they were beautiful cars). In later years, because of rock throwing, the LIRR replaced glass with Lexan. The Lexan became chemically etched because of continuous exposure to the sun and to car wash chemicals and they assumed their fogged appearance. My recollection is that GE changed the formulation of the Lexan it was supplying to railroads to improve its long-term durability and appearance.


Dick Makse

Ayup... yeah, I tend to refer to any of the 54s as pings... probably because I think of the two round windows as being two ping pong balls.

They were referred to as "Owl Eyes."

Dave

My favorite LIRR cars, both to look at, and ride in, electric or diesel were either P-72 or P-75, I have never been able to find out which. They were the newer of the 2, the engineers window was square, the headlights were of the double small variety, and I think they were shorter of the 2.Does any one know which were which, I read that other post and got really confused.
Also, does anyone know why they ran the old double deckers cars with these, weren't they as old as the Ping-Pongs, they did seem to go together though, I can't even get my mind around a double and 54's...

My favorites were monitor roof MP54's which Dave referred to as "owl eyes". They did resemble those birds, and they had distinct LIRR character. How sad that only the "Rockaway Club" was preserved, and then it was torched by vandals. This is a real loss to LIRR history, as was the loss of all the Pennsy style MP54s entrusted to LIST. What bothers me is the very last of them still remain unprotected while they continue to oxidize. The RPO is gone and should be removed. The combine needs to go under a tarp and get immediate anti-rust treatment. Rust never sleeps. The car at Kennebunkport has a great roof and good sides, but the floor is falling out. THe one in upstate NY looks to be the best. I'd love to see a zip brought back in World's Fair paint.
I have made the suggestion that one end of the RPO be salvaged and put into a building as a simulator. The window could be rigged up with MSTS screen so visitors could get the "feeling" of operating an MU on the LIRR. At least that aspect of the great steel MU fleet could be saved.

thrdkilr:

I have no idea why they mixed and matched but the LIRR ran either ALL double decker cars as a train or mixed them with the other MU style cars. And they were also mixed with the monitor roofed "Owl's Eyes" cars (see the shot in my sequel book of the mixed train passing through Kew Gardens on the express track with monitor roof car on the head end!

I only know that trainmen called the doubledeckers a "trainman's nightmare" as they had to duck to get the lower fares and reach to get the upper fares, then duck back down again then up again.

After an entire train of this type you were probably ready to see a chiropractor!

Hey Dick:
Here are some monitors just for you!



Dave

Classic pictures, Dave. What a nice collection of color schemes, even recognizable in the black and white. One thing about those MU cars, you always had something different to look at and enjoy, though you were checking out "cookie cutter" cars. Towards the end, it was fun to see the shops turn out a variety of old cars in the platinum oand blue stripe scheme, attempting to show the modernization of a fleet of cars that began life in the early years of the century! LIRR had a great roster of car types. What a neat photo, to see them all lined up! I was fortunate to grab a few shots of the transition from steel cars to plastic and aluminum. Jamaica station, on Friday evenings, in the summers of 1968,69, and 70 was fun place to go with a camera. Nobody hassled you and the mix of coaches, parlors (both light weight and heavyweights), and newly arrived M1's and real MU cars, was amazing. So many of my peers jeered my train watching while my parents thought I was stupid to invest so much money in film and paper! Today, I treasure each and every shot. You can't go back to Kansas, Toto!

Thanx Dick!

And, for your younger guys, the location of the 3 shots is looking east from the pedestrian crossover at Babylon, when that whole complex was at grade!!

You can see the old brick "BABYLON" tower in the right background and the old wooden freight/express house in the right foreground. Also noticeable are the old wooden-slatted hi-level platforms that dated from the electrification of 1925.

In the distance, near the tower, is the diamond crossing sign of Deer Park Avenue. The street in the foreground at the end of the platform was called Depot Place and was eliminated during the grade elimination project.

Dave

Once again Oracle, thank-you. I never saw a double-decker with anything but the 72 & 75 (not sure of the 72's, if, in fact, they are the newer of the two). They seem to go together, as a matter of fact, as a kid (1964-72, a good time, I think for veiwing the LIRR) I thought they were the built at the same time. .....

thrdkilr:

You're quite welcome.

I've looked through my MU archive and, while they're not extensive with older MU double decker trains (pre-1963), I can find no other shot showing a mixed double decker train with anything but the later MU cars.

It appears that my one shot of the mixed train passing through Kew Gardens with an arched (monitor) roof MP54 on the head end may be a rarity, unless it's just because it's an older shot. There were double decker trains prior to 1955 (MP72's build date) and if they were mixed, they would have had to have MP54's in the consist.

As for the dates of construction of the later cars:

The MP72 cars were built by Pullman-Std in 1955 while the MP75 cars were from the same builder in 1963.

It could be that, as the MP72 and MP75 cars made a more "pleasing" and "matching" profile in a mixed train, they may have started to be used on a regular basis after the arrival in 1955 of the newer cars.

Other than that, I have no idea!!

Dave

The color schemes are telling, too. Note that several cars are in Tichy light grey with silver roofs, but others are in the same grey with black roofs. The lead car is in Goodfellow dar grey with orange doors. All this shows the change-over. Why the railroad dumped the Tichy scheme is probably a matter of economics, but it was a fine indocator of the switch from the pure Pennsy era to the independant company era. The dark grey was in sync with the second C-Liner scheme, which was essentially a dark grey with the circled LI on each end. I have one of those old thick brass and bronze hooter whistles in my collection.

An effort was always made to keep the long cars together as they didn't fit into Brooklyn.

The long cars, with double deckers went on the New York trains, which needed the added capacity. Short cars usually made up trains on the Rockaway and Far Rockaway service that regularly cycled into Flatbush.

They were mixed up from time to time, but this was generally the rule.

Clem

Thanks Clem, that makes sense. Thank-you Oracle, so the 72, 75 did not refer to length in feet? It looked like the the cars made in 63 (my favorites) were shorter than those of 55. Or was that an optical illussion?

The number after the "P" or "MP" ("Passenger" or "Motor Passenger") did not refer to the length of the car.

MP41's were 51' - 4" in length

MB62's (motor baggage) were 64' - 5 1/4" in length (some were 64' - 5 1/2")

MP54's and T54's (MU trailers) were also 64' - 5 1/4" in length

I don't have the dimensions of the MP72's and MP75's but, judging by the above, the numbers did not refer to the car's length; just a designation.

Dave

Maybe Jack Deasy can provide the overall lengths of the MP 72's and 75's.

Dave