Pings and zip cars

The number after the "P" or "MP" ("Passenger" or "Motor Passenger") did not refer to the length of the car.

MP41's were 51' - 4" in length

MB62's (motor baggage) were 64' - 5 1/4" in length (some were 64' - 5 1/2")

MP54's and T54's (MU trailers) were also 64' - 5 1/4" in length

I don't have the dimensions of the MP72's and MP75's but, judging by the above, the numbers did not refer to the car's length; just a designation.

Oh great Guru of all thing LIRR: I must question your statement oh Great Sage of Knowledge and Wisdom.
PRR designations were determind by the lengh passanger area, inside the passanger compartment between the bulkheads.
http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/motorpa ... 54_fp-.gif
I beg your humble forgiveness my liege.

In ans. to an earlier question, The Mp-75 or WorldsFair Cars were the cars that had the square Engineer's window. They were also unique in that they only had the window on the engineers side, not like the earlier cars that had windows on both sides. They were also known as zip cars. The interior windows looked a bit like the current m-7 windows. That is, long and rectangular. They were the last cars ordered before the advent of the M-1's. I used to walk to school in bayside when I was a kid, and walked over the trestle just east of bayside station everyday. It was incredible especially in the later 60's to see the mix and matching of equipment that went on. A typical train would have an mp 54, mp72,mp75, double decker car or 2, and they would be in grey and orange, while some cars would be in blue and white, the new mta colors. Also, all the cars up to and including the mp 54's had whistles instead of horns, the mp 75's had horns. If you have ever heard an interlocking whistle, that is exactly how the whistles on the old equipment sounded. I seem to remember them replacing the whistles with horns in the later 60's on all equipment. If you look closely at the pictures dave provided, you can see the whistle right above the Engineers "Bullseye" window.

Hi Paul:

Thanks for the diagram and correction.

As you can see, my dimensions were all overall dimensions. My roster from which I obtained these dimensions provides only overall dimensions.

I did not know the Pennsy measured from bulkhead to bulkhead. (whatever for??? Overall length is the important factor in determining how many cars a passing siding, etc. will hold. Then again, we're talking about the Pennsy . . . . . they did whatever they wanted, because they could. Remember that old joke about why does a dog lick his . . . .never mind!)

Anyhow . . .
As of Today, December, 29, 2005, I have an extra bit of knowledge added to my brain and archive.

Keep this up and you'll be wearing the "guru" title soon!!

Dave

I had asked Otto to put me as "Lesser Deity of All Things Alco" but alas, my request went unheeded.
As far as the dog, if we could, we'd never leave home and society as we know it would have never existed.
Now, just for giggles what is the steepest sustained grade (not sidings or spurs) on the LIRR, and what mile post was Flowerfied and Setauket located?
Really, I don't know.

The winner goes to: The Montauk branch: Mt. Olivet @ 1.7%

Needed pusher engines on most freights. Pusher would lay up at the base of the grade west of “OLIVET” tower where the water tower is visible in my shot of the C51s backing downgrade at Maspeth (2nd LIRR book, page 32, bottom). As JJ Earl pointed out to me, this C51, rather than running against traffic, has actually finished its job as pusher at the rear of an eastbound freight and is backing westward to the lay-up yard to assist the next freight as needed.

Next is 1.6% grade on Port Jeff branch from end of double track (“S” and later, “AMOTT”) to west of Cold Spring Harbor.

Third, is 1.5% from just east of MP 32, Cold Spring Harbor, east to just beyond MP 33.

Flowerfield was just east of MP51 where Gyrodene was located in later years (station was on north side of tracks, east of the crossing.

Setauket was at MP 55, north side of tracks and east of Gnarled Hollow (Depot) Road. You had to take a narrow path up a sharp hill on the north side of the trestle to get to the depot. Some years later, after the stop had been discontinued, the brush had overgrown so greatly that one would never ever have imagined a road there, let alone access to a station facility.

Dave

While were at it. . What would the steepest spur be? LIPA at Hicksville is steep. . KPPC is 3.3% ..
Any ideas?

Welbuilt Stove is on the Mount Olivet grade. The siding rates a split derail in case something ran away.

Jay

Guys: In my opinion the LIRR 1963 Worlds Fair zip cars as delivered had arguably the best paint scheme in the LIRRs history. Later on they stood out against the older Pullmans since they were not as tall and had different rectangular windows. My favorite memory of the PINGS were for some reason the big canvas belts used under those cars-they would fall off and I remember finding them along with a certain type of metal clip that held them in place. I remember their short length,plain trucks and long trains of them until their retirement in the early 70s. Memories and observations from MACTRAXX

Here's an H10s pulling an early-morning freight eastbound along the Montauk branch up Mt. Olivet hill, passing "OLIVET" tower and Flushing Avenue crossing in Maspeth.

In the center distance can be seen the water tower at the layup yard mentioned previously. I can't make out another plume of smoke at the rear, so possibly this freight wasn't long enough to need a pusher, however, that doesn't mean there wasn't one on the rear end and I just can't see the smoke.

In the foreground can be seen the trolley tracks of the Bklyn & Queens Transit's Flushing Line crossing the LIRR' s tracks. The overhead trolley wires can just be made out at the upper left. The gates are manually cranked down by the block operator in the tower.

Looks like "OLIVET" and its block opr. are about to get a dose of coal smoke and soot!

Keep them windows closed, boy!!!


Dave

Guys, looking at Dave's picture (thanks, Dave) of the crossing gates, I remember they were around for quite awhile (GC came out in 69, I think). Does anybody have some interesting stories about them, like guys falling asleep, ect...


P.S. fear not Dave, your still the Oracle! Remember, Paul is in a different time zone AND located in California!

P.S. fear not Dave, your still the Oracle! Remember, Paul is in a different time zone AND located in California!

Just remember...when the end of the world comes, I will have three more hours to enjoy myself than you do.

Paul . . . . now that's something I never thought about!

Dave

As for gates:

South Ocean Avenue's manual gates controlled from "PD" were removed in 1969. They were taken apart and just dumped in a heap on the south side of the tracks and east of the crossing. I took a photo of the tower with the new automatic electric gates and lights in place and the pile of scrap adjacent to them.

The next time I came by, the scrap was gone . . . probably loaded onto a truck and dumped.

River Avenue crossing had lights but no gates. Also had a crossing shanty.

West Avenue had lights but no gates. Also had a crossing shanty.

Rider Avenue had lights AND manual gates plus a crossing shanty.

Bay Avenue had light but no gates. Also had a crossing shanty.

As I've mentioned before, the operator at "PD" would flip a toggle switch in the tower to turn on the flashing lights. Then he would take the ring guard off the crank handles and begin to crank both handles at once in opposite directions to lower the gates. First one to the right, then the other to the left, then the other one again to the right, alternating in this manner until they were fully lowered.

At times, when there was no train due, traffic would back up from the light at Brookhaven Town Hall at Division Avenue over the tracks. Some putz would invariably stop on the tracks.

This would tick off the operator, so he'd flip the flashing light switch and have a good laugh as he'd see the guy locked in position across the tracks try to get off said tracks and out of the path of what he figured were the soon-to-be-lowered gates and soon-to-arrive train!.

After letting the guy sweat some, he'd flip the lights off again and go back to his newspaper.

The operator with whom I hung around from 1970-1974 did not have the manual gates and lights with which to contend.

Dave