People Really Take Destination Signs Seriously!

Today while waiting for a train at Library-State/Van Buren, I had two people in a row ask me for advice who were extremely confused by the destination curtains.

The first guy was upset because he had just missed an outbound Pink Line train. When I pointed out that another Pink Line train was pulling up right behind the previous one, he asked me if I was sure that it was going to 54/Cermack because the curtain still read "Loop." He wearily boarded the train after some additional coaxing.

Immediately after he boarded, a woman who had been angrily arguing with CTA customer assistance about how to get to Roosevelt came up to me and asked me where the forementioned Pink Line train signed "Loop" was headed to, basically asking if it was a Loop Shuttle. When I told her that its destination was 54/Cermack, she argued that the curtain didn't say that it was headed to 54/Cermack. She then asked me how to get to Roosevelt. I instructed her to board the Orange Line train that was just pulling up to the platform. She then argued that the curtain said that the train was going to Midway, not Roosevelt. With that, I told her that the train would eventually reach Roosevelt and walked the other way to board a different car than her. Assuming that she actually did board the Orange Line train, the signal problems that occurred soon thereafter near Tower 12 must of made her even angrier, as the run was delayed by about 20 minutes. Perhaps I should have told her to wait for a train with the Roosevelt curtain displayed to arrive.

Man, I didn't realize that people take the destination signs so seriously!

I've often wondered about those destination signs. First, I believe they are much too small. Second, the text printed on the colored backgrounds is not easy to read. At present, trains going around the Loop require the motorman to remember to change the sign to the correct destination, whether to Midway, Kimball, Linden, or 54/Cermak. I've been on inbound Orange Line trains where the motorman changes the destination sign while stopped at Roosevelt only to have out-of-towners with all kinds of luggage panic that the train was turning back to the airport before reaching the Loop. I wonder if some automated destination system can be applied, maybe with electronic destination signs. I think the system used for the D.C. Metro is pretty good.

Man, I thought the curtains worked pretty well on the CTA. Last time I was there, four days of heavy riding and I never once saw an incorrect sign. Contrast that with here in Boston it seems like darn near none of the Red Line cars with LCD signs still work -- and by work I mean we're lucky if 50% of the side signs are both working and displaying enough characters correctly to make out the destination.

I haven't seen the Pink Line signs, but I found the rest of the curtain signs to be easier to read than most electronic destination sigs on railcars elsewhere. Perhaps if they just used the same LED signs as most buses are coming with they'd work better.

Kablam76 wrote:Man, I didn't realize that people take the destination signs so seriously!

That was a point I tried to make a long time ago. What does it matter if the destination sign says 54/Cermak or Douglas Pk.

I can't use "Midway" for an example as it is a new line and didn't have an old route name. However, in the case of the woman going to Roosevelt, the old signs would have said "Englewood-Howard" or "Jackson Park-Howard" and it would have made no difference because she wanted to see something that said "Roosevelt". (The Lake-Dan Ryan did not have a Roosevelt Station in 1991).

It just goes to show that even with new idea stuff like route colors and different destination signs, you still have to rely on a map or fellow passenger if you're not familiar with the system.

orangeline wrote:I wonder if some automated destination system can be applied, maybe with electronic destination signs. I think the system used for the D.C. Metro is pretty good.

I think the next generation of new 'L' cars (3500s?) are supposed to have LED signs, which would be a definite visibility improvement over the current roller curtain signs, enabling them to be seen from a longer distance, especially when it's raining or snowing.

F40CFan wrote:It just goes to show that even with new idea stuff like route colors and different destination signs, you still have to rely on a map or fellow passenger if you're not familiar with the system.

Yep. And no matter how much you "dumb down", people should realize that there is still some effort and thought required when it comes to reading and navigating a map. Tourists, especially, shouldn't expect the information to always be handed to them, or to just be fortunate to run into a local who would have the proper knowledge available. It's nice when it happens, but it isn't always going to work out that way.

In regards to the Pink line trains with the incorrect "Loop" signs as it arrived at Library-State/VB as described by the original post, there is a sign at Clinton on the inbound (south) platform specifically instructing that Pink line operators change the destination sign from "Loop" to "54/Cermak". Perhaps the operator missed it because they were either careless, distracted, or just lazy, but missing small details can sometimes lead to big problems... and accidents.

In the State St subway at the renovated Loop stations there are strip maps indicating the remaining stations in the direction of travel for Red Line trains. In the Washington D.C. Metro there are pillars at every station showing remaining stops thru the end of the line for each route serving that station. Perhaps CTA can install something similar at all L stations. Then maybe they can just keep the color without spelling out the end of the line, except if the train's last stop is before the terminal.

doepack wrote:I think the next generation of new 'L' cars (3500s?) are supposed to have LED signs, which would be a definite visibility improvement over the current roller curtain signs, enabling them to be seen from a longer distance, especially when it's raining or snowing.

I hope they use LED and not LCD. I still find the curtains easier to read as the train enters the station.

They have the new LCD displays on Amtrak's Superliner II's and they are very hard to read in the sunlight from any distance.

I advocate a sign that says:

"Your mom is not with you today. Please read the map, be aware of the general direction of travel of trains you observe, and don't be an idiot. If you have a question, politely ask a CTA rep. They've been sitting in that little box for years, so it's likely they know what they're talking about."

Then maybe put a little symbol on the sign that means no schmucks allowed.

Earlier this week on a Blue Line train that ran express between Division and Logan Square, I saw the curtains cycle through the various destinations as it changed from O'Hare to "Express". One of the destinations that cycled through was Ford City. I saw an article about a week or two ago (I think it was in the Red Eye) that Ford City was made in the event that the Orange Line does get extended to that point someday.

You're correct, there's a thread on here from a few years back with that info. Supposedly the Ford City designation was going to be taken off, but it sounds like that hasn't happened.

MetraBNSF wrote:Earlier this week on a Blue Line train that ran express between Division and Logan Square, I saw the curtains cycle through the various destinations as it changed from O'Hare to "Express". One of the destinations that cycled through was Ford City. I saw an article about a week or two ago (I think it was in the Red Eye) that Ford City was made in the event that the Orange Line does get extended to that point someday.

Ford City acutally pops up accidentally and for extended periods of time pretty often. I've seen Orange Line trains pull into Roosevelt with the Ford City curtain displayed.

I have still yet to find out what the third (spare) Pink Line curtain says. I assume it's something strategic, like Ashland or Clinton, or maybe some other Blue Line stop.

First of all, are the new CTA cars still coming in 2009? and are they even going to use the destination curtains anymore or are they going to go to LED's or some form of electronic display?
secondly, yes, some people just need to use common sense.. when I commuted on the south shore from dune park you would be stunned at how many people could not possibly know which way chicago is, not to mention the big signs with the arrows, people should have at least enough common knowledge to know where chicago is.. but it is indiana....

Mis-set destination signs is one of my pet peeves about transit systems.

Fortunately in Boston (near) where I live, this is less and less of a problem as trains are being equipped with automatic stop announcement systems.

Chicago's system can be more confusing to tourists since two or more stations (on different lines) may have the same name such as Addison (because stations are named after streets).

>>> little symbol
What is the icon for "schmuck"? A red circle with a slash through it should never be placed over a word, only over an icon or symbol.

Some of the destination curtains have been modified. I don't know when the modifications took place but here's what I've seen:

Green Line: "Harlem/Lake" now simply says "Harlem". "Cottage Grove/63rd" (white curtain, green lettering) now reads "Cottage Grove"
Red Line: "95th/Dan Ryan" now reads "95th"
Blue Line: "UIC/Halsted" (blue curtain, white lettering) now reads "UIC" (white curtain, blue lettering). This one has been around a little while.

MetraBNSF wrote:Some of the destination curtains have been modified. I don't know when the modifications took place but here's what I've seen:

Green Line: "Harlem/Lake" now simply says "Harlem". "Cottage Grove/63rd" (white curtain, green lettering) now reads "Cottage Grove"
Red Line: "95th/Dan Ryan" now reads "95th"
Blue Line: "UIC/Halsted" (blue curtain, white lettering) now reads "UIC" (white curtain, blue lettering). This one has been around a little while.

I noticed the "95th" change myself. I didn't realize there were others. Do the curtains wear out so fast that they have to be replaced often or is the CTA now so flush with cash that they can get new ones on a whim?