Penn Station to shut down during GOP convention.

When I first read the linked article in my PRINT Chicago Edition of the Times yesterday, it appeared to have content that would be of interest to this Forum. There were not any political ads whatever; in no way do I think that article constituted any kind of political statement.

For any Member here, which means you Mr. Dinky, to construe a political statement therefrom is, to put it mildly, ludicrous.

Here is the "tempest in the teapot' again
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/07/nyreg ... ofile.html

This thread ain't about the politicians, nor the foolish war between right and left which seems to have made the moderates completely disappear, but the train situation underneath the RNC.

Thus far, it has been reported that New Jersey Transit's Midtown Direct (commuter service from former Erie-Lackawanna lines) will be shut out of Penn, those trains being re-diverted to their old home in Hoboken Terminal. No Amtrak service to be diverted, that I've heard of—too bad, because it would be nice to see Empire Corridor trains and some trains from Boston back in GCT.

Kind of makes you wish that Baltimore and Ohio and Reading still ran their long distance trains out of Jersey Central's Jersey City Terminal doesn't it?

Throw in the long distance trains of the Erie Lackawanna out of Hoboken that this bogey man of a GOP convention issue would be essentially a non-issue!

Irish Chieftain wrote:This thread ain't about the politicians, nor the foolish war between right and left which seems to have made the moderates completely disappear, but the train situation underneath the RNC.

Thus far, it has been reported that New Jersey Transit's Midtown Direct (commuter service from former Erie-Lackawanna lines) will be shut out of Penn, those trains being re-diverted to their old home in Hoboken Terminal. No Amtrak service to be diverted, that I've heard of—too bad, because it would be nice to see Empire Corridor trains and some trains from Boston back in GCT.

I still like the idea of moving into the swamp on N. NJ

CNJ wrote:Kind of makes you wish that Baltimore and Ohio and Reading still ran their long distance trains out of Jersey Central's Jersey City Terminal doesn't it?

Throw in the long distance trains of the Erie Lackawanna out of Hoboken that this bogey man of a GOP convention issue would be essentially a non-issue!

That wouldn't help Penn Station's biggest users, the 250,000 or so daily customers of the Long Island Rail Road. Some of the traffic could be shifted to Flatbush Ave., Hunterspoint Ave., Woodside or Jamaica, but it would be a MESS!!

Let's hope the powers that be can figure out how to keep traffic flowing at NYP. As for me, I work uptown now so I'll probably drive those days.

The suggestion to re-route Amtrak trains to Grand Central is at least in my
opinion, not practical for several reasons. Amtrak lacks the locomotives
at this point to run Boston trains to GCT, Albany trains probably could do
it but probably GCT lakes capacity for this operation these days.
In the days that Amtrak ran to GCT, Metro-North had less service than
they do today and electric engines were still used for switching at GCT.
Amtrak maintained facilities there too which are now gone.
I am not sure that Metro-North would have enough crews available to
provide the necessary pilots for the Amtrak crews who are not qualified
over the territory to GCT.
If Penn Station were to be closed to handling passengers, the NEC through
trains might be able to run through without stopping in which case the
Boston trains could drop their New York passengers at Stamford or New
Rochelle for Metro-North to handle while the Washington trains could use
Newark as a transfer to the Path system for uptown or downtown New York. The trains could be stopped at old F tower at Sunnyside and change
crews there to go north or south as the case might be and then run through Penn Station straight rail on tracks 11 and 12. Through passengers could then remain on the trains without major problems.
The Albany and points west trains could be terminated at either Croton-
Harmon or Poughkeepsie and passengers use Metro-North service to
GCT.
The Long Island has several alternatives, Brooklyn, Hunterspoint, Long
Island City or Woodside plus the Jamaica Station. It would be tough but
they have done it before and could do it again.
New Jersey Transit could run some of the stuff into Hoboken and the rest
of their trains could run to Newark to transfer to Path. Pleasant, NO,
doable, YES.
The fact that two political conventions can and will disrupt the travel of
thousands of passengers throughout the northeast is insane in my opinion.
Noel Weaver

I agree with Mr. Weaver. All of Midtown Manhattan will be a zoo during the convention. Ditto for Boston. A few months ago, when some UN meeting was happening in NY, we saw some big, black SUVs cruising down Park Ave with guys holding automatic rifles, wearing black outfits, but not in any uniform I recognized. Probably be more of that this summer, especially since the bad guys are thought to be planning a disruption of the electoral process.
For my part, I wish one of the conventions were to be held in Houston, the other one in Dallas.

A few months ago, when some UN meeting was happening in NY, we saw some big, black SUVs cruising down Park Ave with guys holding automatic rifles, wearing black outfits, but not in any uniform I recognized.

Maybe it was the mob. :D

I know that we have at least one Member here who has been with the hospitality industry and I'm certain he disagrees with me. But Mr. Weaver summed it up; and I'm simply of thought that these anachronisms called political conventions have "got to go".

We know that travelers and commuters in two major Northeastern cities regardless of whatever mode they use, will be inconvenienced - and in our post 9/11 world, someone just might get hurt.

Folks, it's all been decided; Kerry/Edwards, Bush/Cheney what else?

There really hasn't been anything of substance, like the Presidential nomination, decided since the 1952 GOP. It was one thing before instant communications a hundred years ago for representatives of a political party to convene and decide upon a candidate. Thr primary system has nullified that and has brought the nomination process into the open.

Naturally of course institutions that do not purport to be any kind of democracy will continue to choose their leaders in secret conclaves; so be that, but at least they are not disrupting the lives of people from their assemblies (not saying any other way, of course).

If there is some rule out there within each political party stating the delegates must vote on the candidate, that's what the internet is for. Same applies to the "planks in the platform".

So let's just give each of 'em 12 hours of free prime media air time to do with as they please and stow these anacronisms hopefully where the sun don't shine.

As for myself, this documented independent voter will be "all eyes and ears' for the debates - those are the real ++++ that have resulted from instant mass communications. But for those three days at the end of the next two months (interspersed by that other "sitting duck for the bad guys" - but that IS getting off topic), I can only hope History Channel will have some worthwhile reruns I haven't already seen.

This is on topic folks.

I have come to the sad conclusion that the hassle and inconvience of
traveling into Penn Station during the convention is not worth it for
anyone at this point.
What to do????
Shut it down to everything that stops there, straight rail through Boston
Washington trains through without stopping. Crews can change at
Sunnyside (former F Tower). Passengers for New York can detrain at
either Newark and take Path or at Stamford or New Rochelle and take
Metro-North to GCT, plenty of good service available on both.
On the Albany Line, terminate the trains at either Harmon or Poughkeepsie
and use Metro-North service.
Will this be an in-convience, yes of course it will but it will be far better
than having the train(s) sit somewhere while the whole train is checked or
searched by bomb sniffing dogs.
The time to plan for this is now and not the week of the convention when
all sorts of other things need to be done.
The Long Island and NJT also have alternatives, the LIRR did it in years
past when strikes on the PRR shut the station down and NJT can use
either Hoboken or Newark.
Still think it would have been much better if these two conventions had
been scheduled someplace where there would not be so much disruption
to the cities or the traveling public who have both suffered enough as it is.
Noel Weaver

Re-routing AMTRAK trains is not a possiblility. Although I commute on AMTRAK from Philadelphia every day (a commute already too long sometimes).....you have to consider the long distance and out of town travelers who use AMTRAK. Requiring them to change at NWK or New Rochelle would be impossible as you are talking about moving 300-500 people at one time onto one small PATH Subway train or an already crowded MN train WITH all of their luggage.

In addition, it would not be possible to help all of those people unfamilar with the area navigate to their new destinations......plus we have not even talked about how we could get all of those people to pay another fare for the PATH or the MN

I do not agree with the previous entry, the Amtrak passengers would be
better served without the security and delays involved in a train search
for weapons, bombs or whatever they are looking for.
Path is well equipped and with capacity to handle more than they are
presently handling and I for one would rather ride Path for a few minutes
than to sit somewhere while the whole train is searched or maybe sit
behind several trains in front of us waiting to be searched. It might be
crowded in the rush hours but the people would still get through.
On the Connecticut side, it would be even less of a problem as Metro-North has sufficient capacity to handle people from either New Rochelle or
Stamford and on the Hudson Line from Poughkeepsie or Croton-Harmon as well. The soon to be retired 1100's would serve as ideal shuttles for
Amtrak passengers on a non-stop basis between Croton-Harmon and
Grand Central.
I would surely rather cross the platform to another train than to be
subject to airline type hassels just for a ride into Penn Station.
Penn Station has experienced shut-downs before, I don't know how long
"Mannynews" has been around but I remember two different times that
Penn Station was shut down due to strikes and both times the passengers
were still served.
Noel Weaver

Is this a prelude to the total shutdown of ALL Amtrak service in the East? If Penn Station is shut down, that will hamper the commute, and doom the silver service at least.

Well, Penn Station IMHO shouldn't be shut down. I have to totally agree with Mr. Weaver in this one. Since it would be a Pain In the Neck (Nightmare on Elm Street) to have all commuters or long-haul riders shuttles to Grand Central or taken to Newark or Yonkers. Heck, the Penn Station Concourse is safely low enough for any protection to the GOP's and the Prez. So I feel that NYP ought to remain running, but with more security (increased Amtrak Police presence and Secret Service patrolling the NYP Perimeter) and more K9ers too.

If you 'shut down' Penn Station and operate the BOS-WAS Amtrak trains through the plant, you gain little in the way of security if bombs are your worry. And any train that would be allowed to rumble under Penn/MSN would get the Secret Service's "full treatment" anyway, so why not stop the trains and let the people get on and off?