Pan Am Southern / Patriot Corridor Discussion

There will doubtfully be radio changes, which would require each and every locomotive, handheld and track car to be changed in kind.

newpylong wrote:There will doubtfully be radio changes, which would require each and every locomotive, handheld and track car to be changed in kind.

The radio frequencies used throughout the former B&M and Maine Central systems have not changed in more than 30 years. It will be surprising if they do in fact create a separate frequency for districts 2, 3 and if there is a return of district 4. Locomotive radios are all preprogrammed based on AAR frequency, for example, 160.620MHz is AAR channel 34 and 161.400MHz is AAR channel 86. This is the reason why locomotives from one railroad to another simply change the frequencies without changing the radio. That may not hold true for handheld radios though.

I think I phrased that poorly - I meant to say I doubt there will be changes (...due to the following reasons). You are correct, the handhelds are not set up to toggle like that. The banks needs to be setup, same as the old cab radios.

CPF363 wrote:

neman2 wrote:What was the split before?

District 2 and District 3 split at CPFNC. District 3 and District 4 split at CPF370. If they split, hopefully each district will have their own radio frequency verses what exists today with both dispatchers sometimes speaking at the same time and interfering with each other.

I would hope they get rid of the "duplex" setup they use where the mobiles transmit on 161.52 and the dispatcher transmits on 161.16.This can lead to interference because multiple mobile units in the same vicinity can't hear each other talking at the same time.I'm not sure of many advantages to this setup other than discouraging train crews from "chatting" with each other.I don't know of many railroad's or businesses that use this anymore,it used to be popular among taxi companies.

From my experience in public safety duplex is a requirement in order to use a repeater. The dispatcher is on the tower's TX freq (161.16). The mobile units TX on their freq (161.52). which is then RTX'd by the tower (161.16). That's how the mobile units can communicate beyond line of sight using VHF.

gokeefe wrote:From my experience in public safety duplex is a requirement in order to use a repeater. The dispatcher is on the tower's TX freq (161.16). The mobile units TX on their freq (161.52). which is then RTX'd by the tower (161.16). That's how the mobile units can communicate beyond line of sight using VHF.

I may have used the wrong term, I believe it may be called half or semi-duplex.Pan Am is not using a repeater -repeaters take the mobile unit transmission on its freq and rebroadcast it on on another freq,which is what most public safety agencies do.That way all the mobile units and dispatch hear each others transmissions.Pan Am's system doesn't allow mobiles to hear or talk to each other on Channel 1.It also doesn't allow dispatchers to hear or talk to each other on Channel 1.I wish I could draw a diagram to illustrate.

neman2 wrote:

gokeefe wrote:From my experience in public safety duplex is a requirement in order to use a repeater. The dispatcher is on the tower's TX freq (161.16). The mobile units TX on their freq (161.52). which is then RTX'd by the tower (161.16). That's how the mobile units can communicate beyond line of sight using VHF.

I may have used the wrong term, I believe it may be called half or semi-duplex.Pan Am is not using a repeater -repeaters take the mobile unit transmission on its freq and rebroadcast it on on another freq,which is what most public safety agencies do.That way all the mobile units and dispatch hear each others transmissions.Pan Am's system doesn't allow mobiles to hear or talk to each other on Channel 1.It also doesn't allow dispatchers to hear or talk to each other on Channel 1.I wish I could draw a diagram to illustrate.

The former B&M side of the system, for the dispatcher radios, think of it as being several two-way radios that transmit on one frequency, 161.160MHz, AAR channel 70 and receive on different frequency, 161.520MHz, AAR channel 94. This is not true of the former MEC lines which use 160.620MHz, AAR channel 34, to transmit and receive. There is no reason why the railroad could not make district 2 transmit and receive on 161.160MHz and district 3 transmit and receive on 161.520MHz for example. They have licenses to use both of these frequencies, so it would be a small routine to make the change. They should have done this when the radio system was converted to narrow band at the end of 2012.

CPF363 wrote:The former B&M side of the system, for the dispatcher radios, think of it as being several two-way radios that transmit on one frequency, 161.160MHz, AAR channel 70 and receive on different frequency, 161.520MHz, AAR channel 94. This is not true of the former MEC lines which use 160.620MHz, AAR channel 34, to transmit and receive. There is no reason why the railroad could not make district 2 transmit and receive on 161.160MHz and district 3 transmit and receive on 161.520MHz for example. They have licenses to use both of these frequencies, so it would be a small routine to make the change. They should have done this when the radio system was converted to narrow band at the end of 2012.

What's interesting is if you go to the FCC database for Massachusetts,Springfield Terminal has licenses for 160.23MHZ,160.26MHZ,161.235MHZ(former RR Police),161.25MHZ and 161.31MHZ.I haven't heard any activity on these and to the best of my knowledge no one else has reported hearing activity on these freqs.

This is strictly a guess, but from a Money stand point, District 1 can talk to a train on district 1 while another dispatcher is talking to another train in District 2 on the same channels. I know different antennas etc... but there is less need for more base radios and for train radios with multiple frequencies. (remember this was under the old Finks who where very tight with the money. anyway to save a buck.....

I was poking around the west end yesterday and it looks like the line is slowly being brought back in shape. Some of the 10s have been knocked out near Valley Falls and Buskirk which makes for a much more interesting chase on 67. They've also been bringing in some old B&M/MEC/D&H tie gons and hoppers to haul away the great wall of ties in Buskirk. There's new gates up in Eagle Bridge as well as new signals. I can't remember where I was, but I believe some of the new signals have already been cut in east of Hoosick Falls.

boatsmate wrote:This is strictly a guess, but from a Money stand point, District 1 can talk to a train on district 1 while another dispatcher is talking to another train in District 2 on the same channels. I know different antennas etc... but there is less need for more base radios and for train radios with multiple frequencies. (remember this was under the old Finks who where very tight with the money. anyway to save a buck.....

Radio equipment is greatly advanced since the 1960s. Today's radios are completely programmable, no need for crystals anymore and are not tube based either. So if the railroad decided that it wanted to change around the frequencies, it is a formality to do so, simply hook up the lap-top, program and press return and the new frequency is programmed to the new licensed frequency. There is no added cost to program the radio with 160.620MHz to transmit and receive than there is with 161.160MHz transmit and 161.520MHz receive. Many of the new radios are integrated with multiple transmitters that it can transmit on multiple different frequencies all simultaneously, so for example, a radio on Blackstrap Mountain could be set up to transmit and receive on 160.620MHz while at the same time could transit and receive on 161.310MHz without interference to either radio. With radios set up on the same frequencies, in the case of district 2 and district 3, district 3 can hear most everything that district 2 can and vise versa from Dover to Gardner, hence the reason for using different frequencies. The D&H, under CP Rail implemented different frequencies for the North End and South End dispatchers and the MBTA' s Boston East dispatcher uses a different frequency than that of Boston West, all to cut down on the interference. In addition, locomotive based radios are pre-programmed, so switching from one frequency to another is a trivial matter for the engineer, with a sign erected to tell approaching trains to change frequencies when going from dispatcher to dispatcher at a specific change-over point. There is a cost to doing it right, but it is not a big one, radio equipment can be purchased on eBay if you believe it, and the new radios fit into a standard racks. Labor, rent and routine maintenance are the biggest costs.

There has been a small tie gang working between Athol and Royalston this week, and today I saw a tamping crew working the single track just west of Tyters.

40 MPH Tyters to Erving again single iron.

newpylong wrote:District 4 will be making a return in the near future after a nonsensical cost cutting hiatus. District 3 is too busy and employees are having problems contacting them among issues.

Any idea when this is supposed to happen?

Looks like west end of PAS will be out of service for 24 hours Tues 12/17 6AM to Weds 12/18 6AM. Impact to PAS/NS trains per NS Intermodal web site service alerts:

http://www.nscorp.com/content/nscorp/en ... namrr.html


Hoosick Falls Bridge Project on PanAm RR
Dec 11, 2013

Please be advised that the PanAm RR will be performing repairs at the Hoosick Falls Bridge (East of Mechanicville, NY) next week. The bridge will be out of service from 6:00am Tuesday December 17th until 6:00am Wednesday December 18th, 2013. Customers should expect freight moving on trains 22K/23K and 206/205 between Chicago, IL and Ayer, MA to be impacted as follows:

22K-16 (Chicago to Ayer) - 14 hour delay. Loads should be available by 7:00pm Wednesday December 18th.

206-16 (Chicago/Toledo to Ayer) – 16 hour delay. Loads should be available by 9:00pm Wednesday December 18th.

23K-18 (Ayer to Chicago) – 12 hour later arrival in Chicago.

205-18 (Ayer/Mechanicville/Taylor to Chicago) – 15 hour later arrival in Chicago.

I05-18 will protect customer freight from Buffalo, NY to Chicago, IL.

We regret any inconvenience this may cause our customers.