NYC in the Hudson Valley - POSTER

Look this over... I would like to set this up and turn it into a poster that will be for sale on the Railroad.net store. Let me know what you think.

http://www.tsny.com/otto/nyc_hudsonvalley.jpg

-otto-

Speaking as an audience of one, I'd be happy to buy it!

Otto Vondrak wrote:Look this over... I would like to set this up and turn it into a poster that will be for sale on the Railroad.net store. Let me know what you think.

http://www.tsny.com/otto/nyc_hudsonvalley.jpg

-otto-

I see an error in the layout at Selkirk.
Feura Bush is at the west end of the Selkirk Yard (CP-FB)
Both Unionville and New Scotland are on the line west of CP-FB between
there and CP-VO Voorheesville.
South Bethlehem would lie on the map at about the location where you
are showing New Scotland.
One more, the line from Carman on the Chicago Line comes in to the
Selkirk Branch at CP-SH which is at the east end of South Schenectady.
The only thing at Fullers is the two level bridge over Route US-20 and this
is the location where track two crosses over track one.
There may be more but I haven't had a chance to really study it yet.
Noel Weaver

I should probably mention that I got all my data from various ETT maps, and I tried to check against a Station List book I have from 1916.

Thank you Noel. I made the corrections. If you spot anything else, please feel free. I should really have ol' George K. check this out too!

-otto-

Don't know if your map is meant to be a historic represention or an accurate representation.

If the former, ignore my following comment. If it to be a techinally accurate, the following is my input.

The map shows West Point to be WNW from Cold Spring. If you look that way from Cold Spring you will see Storm King Mountain. You have to look about SW to see West Point even from Garrison.

Beacon/Newburgh and Poughkeepsie/Highland look to be accurate.


Looks like a great project. Looking forward to the final result.


Best regards, Jerry

Well done, Otto!

cheers,
Ori
VA3ORI - VA3XW

Very neat!! Sign me up for one, Otto. And you can deliver it on your next visit (you know where-- a couple of valleys east of the Hudson!).

Here are some more changes in your poster, these are the ones that I
said earlier that I would check for you:
Harlem Division:
You need to show Wakefield (241st St.) between Mount Vernon and
Woodlawn (233rd St.). What you have listed as 165th Street should be
listed as 183rd Street between Fordham (190th Street) and Tremont (177
th Street). There was a station at Claremont Parkway (171st Street)
between Morrisania (168th Street) and Tremont (177th Street).
Putnam Division:
South end was at Sedgewick Avenue followed by SK tower which was
common to both the Hudson and Putnam Divisions. High Bridge, Morris
Heights and University Heights stations were also common to both lines
but had separate platforms for the Putnam Division. BN tower was also
common to both the Putnam and Hudson Division. Marble Hill Station was
west (presently north) of BN and the Putnam tracks did not go anywhere
near Marble Hill Station but rather continued straight whereas the Hudson
Division swung away in a curve at BN. If you were to ride a train from
Grand Central up to Marble Hill, you would notice the big wide sweeping
curve to the left and would see the remains of the Putnam continuing
straight ahead while your passenger train goes around the curve.
Getting away from New York City, here are some more:
The Rutland branch out of Chatham did not go into Massachusetts but went
right from New York State to Vermont, it crossed the New York Vermont
border between Bennington and Petersburg, Junction.
The Boston and Maine main freight line going east out of Mechanicville
crossed into Vermont before going to Massachusetts. It passed through
the town of Pownal, Vermont in the process.
The connection between the Mohawk and the Delaware and Hudson was/is
at Schenectady and not Scotia although the Boston and Maine and the
Delaware and Hudson connect over in there somewhere.
On the Boston and Albany route east out of Rensselaer, the connection
between the passenger line from Rensselaer and the freight line out of
Selkirk is at Post Road and not Niverville. Niverville is east of Post Road.
Finally on the River Line (West Shore) there once was a very short branch
between Congers and Rockland Lake. It was extremely short and it was
abandoned quite early on. This branch cut off from the main line between
Valley Cottage and Congers although I think it was actually closer to
Congers and went in an east direction (toward the Hudson River). I have
a timetable from 1906 and there is not too much mention of this branch in
this timetable but a map on the back shows the line. One of the few
references to this branch in the timetable is under speed restrictions, it was 15 MPH. In another timetable dated September 24, 1922, it shows
the Rockland Lake Branch with a speed of 15 MPH with engines in classes
F, F-2 and F-12 further restricted to 4 MPH. The timetable of 1922 also
states that cars exceeding total weight of 120,000 pounds must not be
operated. The above items do not show in 1926 so the branch may have
been gone by then.
Don't be discouraged by all of the above, railroad maps often contained
errors in them beyond their own line and occasionally even on their own
line.
It was work but interesting doing the above research.
Again, good luck with this job.
Noel Weaver

Noel- thank you for your extensive critique- and thank you for helping me make the map more accurate. I can make all of the above changes, the only one I'm not sure about is squeezing in Sedgwick Ave terminal on the Put.

I hope to have this map finalized by Thanksgiving, so that you can order from the site and have them in time for the Holidays!

-otto-

Wow, today's Metro-North is only a shell of what the NYC used to be.

Today's Metro-North is no different than the suburban service the NYC ran until 1968. The only major deletion is the Putnam Division. Remember- Metro-North is only a commuter carrier with an 80-mile territory, while NYC was nationwide, with the suburban service only accounting for a fraction of the territory operation.

-otto-

JayMan wrote:Wow, today's Metro-North is only a shell of what the NYC used to be.

Not really, Metro-North runs way more trains than the New York Central
ran over both the Hudson and the Harlem.
Last New York Central timetable to Poughkeepsie 8, Peekskill 9
Metro-North to Poughkeepsie 24
Last New York Centrdal timetable to Brewster 23, Pawling 2, Dover Plains
2 and Chatham 1
Metro-North to Brewster 29, Dover Plains/Wassaic 13
In fairness to the New York Central Poughkeepsie, Beacon and Peekskill
had some additional service with trains passing through that stopped for
passengers.
There is considerably more Metro-North service than there was under the
New York Central and this is due to a number of reasons. The entire area
is growing and more and more people who work in or very close to
Manhattan are choosing to live further out from the city. The extension of
the third rail to Brewster has helped to increase ridership on that line as
well.
I would suspect that today there are more trains in and out of Grand
Central than there were in the New York Central days.
A shadow of the New York Central, I don't think so.
Noel Weaver

Thanks everyone for your encouragement and help... latest update is here: http://www.tsny.com/otto/nyc_hudsonvalley.jpg

-otto-

Otto, I guess I left a little doubt as to the set-up just west of Selkirk.
The old original West Shore ran south of the yard at Selkirk and joined the
tracks west out of Selkirk at or very close to Unionville. I know there is a
lot of room for confusion on this one as the timetable maps are still not
definate. If I had not worked that particular territory for the last ten years
of my time, I would be totally lost from the timetables.
I think you should try to get Sedgewick Avenue in your poster, it was the
south end terminal for the Putnam Division. The Putnam Division was well
separated from the Hudson Division at that particular location, ask George
K. about it, he can tell you where the terminal was. Seems to me it was
very close to or under the Major D. Expressway. I don't think it was very
far from the old car washer at High Bridge.
I think this will do it so far as the territory that I am familiar with.
Noel Weaver

The Put and the Hudson parallel each other to High Bridge and Sedgwick Avenue is located under the Major Deegan- you can see the terminal there today- not too far from the tracks. If I can make the room, I will certainly add it.

I need to go back and rework Selkirk- what a tricky area!

-otto-