NJCL - more trains / EXPRESSES / HOB-BH service !!

philipmartin wrote:

Erie Limited wrote: Thanks! The advertising on the cars was for Captain Morgan rum.

I'll have to get some.
If multilevels are prohibited west of Long Branch, what's the reason?

Personal note: I rode the Erie Limited from Jersey City to Chicago in 1954.

Personal note: I do "not" live in my car at the station where I haven't been fired, yet

It's Sunday night... Time to deadhead 2 sets of equipment out of Bay Head that ran empty down there anyway due to bad scheduling! So glad there are 2 late night Sunday "express" trains because that's not a waste of funds at all.

SecaucusJunction wrote:It's Sunday night... Time to deadhead 2 sets of equipment out of Bay Head that ran empty down there anyway due to bad scheduling! So glad there are 2 late night Sunday "express" trains because that's not a waste of funds at all.

Enough. We get it you think these trains are a waste. Snide comments like these do nothing to further any conversation. Until you can back your claim up. Keep it to yourself or just move on.

There is no special equipment move for the dual mode equipment. It comes down from Hoboken Friday night, and goes back up Monday morning.

hovercat and Oport hit the nail on the head. This forum is nothing more than joke with no constructive discussion except for armchair railroading from a few select members and SecaucusJunction pretending to know how a railroad works. Sad. Nothing more for me here.

Any special equipment handling to run these farce early morning inbound trains should be outlawed. I still have a feeling that this all comes down to NJT "marketing" trying to tell people they have 4 "express" trains to the beach... they just leave out the fact that only 2 are actually useable. And zero are actually useable if you are trying to connect from anywhere.

SecaucusJunction wrote:Any special equipment handling to run these farce early morning inbound trains should be outlawed. I still have a feeling that this all comes down to NJT "marketing" trying to tell people they have 4 "express" trains to the beach... they just leave out the fact that only 2 are actually useable. And zero are actually useable if you are trying to connect from anywhere.

And who besides you has mentioned any special equipment handling?

The thread was closed when I asked before, but it is opened now. Since you seem to have so many concerns and you obviously must know the crew and equipment manipulation to make statements like

SecaucusJunction wrote:So what's the good plan for tomorrow morning? Deadhead some equipment all the way down to Bay Head so they can run a 4am empty express train equipment move back to Penn for the real train to run back at 8:00am? Then have the train stop at Secaucus for nobody waiting because the connection doesn't arrive for another 5 minutes after it leaves? Then have the "express" train make a bunch of stops on the way to Long Branch before the beach points? Then have the people walk almost a mile to get to the beach once the 2 hour long train ride is over. Then repeat this disastrous process week in and week out until Labor Day using up a whole bunch of grants that were meant to alleviate congestion but really leave out much of the state they're supposed to serve?

and

SecaucusJunction wrote:It's Sunday night... Time to deadhead 2 sets of equipment out of Bay Head that ran empty down there anyway due to bad scheduling! So glad there are 2 late night Sunday "express" trains because that's not a waste of funds at all.

, would you be so kind as to answer the questions that Ryanov and I put before the house? To remind you:

ThirdRail7 wrote:

ryanov wrote:

CentralValleyRail wrote:

ryanov wrote:CentralValleyRail: please tell us about the considerations they used to decide this schedule if you know them. If not, maybe "hush."

Yes I do and I know you do too. With all those factors in place, WE BOTH KNOW NJT could've done a lot better.

You typed like a whole two paragraphs and said nothing. Factors please, and citations.

Agreed. I'm interested in knowing what CVR and to a certain extent SecaucusJunction thinks goes into scheduling/adding trains. Please list the constraints that NJT may or may not need to consider or that you think they should considered as they launched this service.

You've mangled the equipment locations, but perhaps you can fill the rest of us on the crew couplets, when the equipment is pitted, the ALP45s serviced, the meets along the lines, Amtrak's position on the timing...etc.


I am most interested in knowing why you think that a few of these trains running with less riders than others is worthy of the tantrum that is being thrown. The only thing I can think of is you must think that the REST of NJTs and to a larger extent other railroads run with full trains in every direction at all times. Surely you must realize that everything needs to exist in balance. You can't possibly think that trains on that vast majority of the railroad systems don't run deadhead or lightly used runs for positioning and this is unique to the NJCL.

That being said, the express trains were part of an effort to add additional service to the NJCL. It has done that and I hope the grant continues as there is an additional added benefit down in Bay Head....but of course you already know that, right?

I'll be in touch with Tad and Jeff momentarily. Let's remember to be friendly, people are not trying, I hope, to be damfools when they post.

MOD NOTE

I think it's best to refer back to Otto's old rule that went something like this: There are certain things we can do here, there are certain things we can't do here. Complaints are something we can't address at this board. Call customer service or write your congressman but realize there's only so much we can do here about one member's frustration about the schedule. This goes for everybody.

That said: SECAUCUS JUNCTION: You're on public notice and real thin ice.. You're being really annoying and nobody wants to listen to it. State an opinion, perhaps argue the facts, but don't beat a dead horse. Or get a blog. Either way, your contributions are completely counterproductive and you had better lay off.

Now that the thread is open again, back to the issue at hand, the new express trains for the summer.

As a former resident of the shore, I would have appreciated and patronized through express trains running from Bay Head to NYC in the morning, and mid-morning hours, year round. Trip times were faster for many in the immediate years prior to Long Branch electric service as most WEEKEND trains ran from Bay Head to Newark, with limited stops after Matawan, and a dedicated connecting train waiting in Newark during the peak weekend periods.

Hopefully patronage on the shore bound express trains will warrant continuation of this service, one of the great unkowns is of course the weather.
A prior poster asked about the former Bergen-Shore trains, and as a poster commented, if the weather was hot and sunny 2 train sets could be filled, and it it was rainy the train would run near empty. This is a big part of the issue with running summer focused shore express trains, the LIRR will pack their Montauk trains in the summer no matter what the weather, but they serve a very different market than the shore (ocean and beaches aside).

Ken

It figures that the one summer when I can't visit Bradley Beach is the summer when NJT runs one-seat weekend Bay Head super expresses! Maybe I can find some way to fit it into a day trip instead?

I miss the diesel expresses that ran years ago in the early 2000's. They ran Hoboken-Newark-Long Branch and then made all stops if I'm not mistaken, and made decent time. That's the biggest unfortunate thing for me, that service hasn't been quite that fast since. I don't really remember the patronage back then, but I guess they weren't that popular if they disappeared.

The last 4-7 pages: wow.

Now, i have a question... If the MLV's are in fact restricted from the NJCL, why is this, and how far down can they go past UNION on the line? Also, if an express trains are a big thing, wouldnt it make sense to put the 3 door cars on them, and leave locals with the comet 2's and multilevels if they ever do get put into service there? Or, would this not make sense & use comet 2's for more seats?

One other thing i just thought of: would adding a siding or additional running track help increase trains per day past long branch, or is it strictly a money thing or a not enough people to run the trains thing?

25Hz wrote:The last 4-7 pages: wow.

Now, i have a question... If the MLV's are in fact restricted from the NJCL, why is this, and how far down can they go past UNION on the line? Also, if an express trains are a big thing, wouldnt it make sense to put the 3 door cars on them, and leave locals with the comet 2's and multilevels if they ever do get put into service there? Or, would this not make sense & use comet 2's for more seats?

One other thing i just thought of: would adding a siding or additional running track help increase trains per day past long branch, or is it strictly a money thing or a not enough people to run the trains thing?

I think that most of the NJT employees have gone to lurking status. I will attempt to pitch in with the limited information I'm aware of and hopefully we can lure them back to posting.

I know the MLVs are restricted on the loops at Bay Head which is ok since I believe they are still restricted between Elberon and Bay Head anyway. I know the radius of the loops is too tight for the MLVs and I can't remember why there is/was a restriction past Elberon.

As for the traffic, my understanding is it has more to do with the fuel costs, not crews or sidings.

ThirdRail7 wrote:I think that most of the NJT employees have gone to lurking status. I will attempt to pitch in with the limited information I'm aware of and hopefully we can lure them back to posting.

I know the MLVs are restricted on the loops at Bay Head which is ok since I believe they are still restricted between Elberon and Bay Head anyway. I know the radius of the loops is too tight for the MLVs and I can't remember why there is/was a restriction past Elberon.

As for the traffic, my understanding is it has more to do with the fuel costs, not crews or sidings.

That is a shame, because if it was all most anything else, it sounds like it would be workable to have more trains per day.

On MLV's: Since many of the geeps are being phased out of revenue service (save the MTA units), it's also a shame that there are restrictions, because you could in theory run shorter consists without losing a ton of seats, which perhaps be able to run a tighter timetable, enabling either more trains per day or simply a faster schedule where it can fit in with the rest of the system's moves. It would also free up single level coaches, which could be used elsewhere. Just my observations as a track-side rail enthusiast.

And as far as the lurking folks.... i do feel the need to apologize for my part in the reasons they decided to be less participating. I have been rather knuckle-headed in my approach, attitude, and choice of wording more frequently than i care to remember on many subjects and threads. So yea, i'm sorry.

How have the ridership numbers been on those direct express trains?