New line to Whistler and Prince George?

I keep reading various rumors about a new luxury train from Vancouver up to Whistler, then possibly on up to Prince George. It would replace the old excursion train run by BC Rail.
I was under the impression the new train would be run by VIA.
Anyone know more ...I thought I read that it would start up sometime in 2005? I would especially be interested in the intinerary. The old run, I think, stopped at either Williams Lake or 100 Mile House. Not much in terms of lodging. It would be great if they could have sleeper units with the new set-up. Would it connect to the VIA at Prince George, and allow transfer over to Jasper?
Richard

I heard about that but ENR3870 would have more info.

AmtrakFan

There is no solid plan, they haven't even selected an operator yet. The decision has been put on hold, I personally wouldn't hold my breath, as the passenger service issue was only trotted out in an attempt to appease angry northern politicians, who were in opposition of the CN takeover of BC Rail. Now that the deal is done, the passenger service issue is no longer much of an issue to them(CN and/or the gov't)

There was nothing wrong with any of the BC Rail passenger services, you refer in particular to the Whistler Northwind. This train was top notch, it simply was caught between a rock and a hard place...it was concieved at a time when the former gov't was in charge, and was not hell bent to sell off BC Rail. By the the time it was actually running, everything had changed, the new gov't wanted BC Rail gone(quick buck), and one of the first orders of business was to get rid of the passenger services, to make BCR more attractive to a private buyer. The Northwind never had a chance. All advertising for it disappeared over night, with the desired effect of very low ridership, and an excuse to get rid of it. The same game was played with the rest of the once sizeable passenger operations. We(the people of BC) took a serious bath on the Northwind, and all the other services, as the equipment was basically given away, to get it off the property asap.

A very sad ending to what was a proud and impressive operation. There were days on which no fewer than 4 trains a day left the humble North Vancouver station. From the Royal Hudson, to the RDC's, to the dinner train, to the Northwind, it was all a very big loss in one shot.

There will be a train runing again one day, probably only a land cruise, and probably run by Rocky Mountaineer, as they have friends in high places here, unlike Via, who would be the most appropriate operator of a REAL passenger service. I doubt it will happen soon though, and noone is talking.

It looks like you are correct, Missthealcos. Here is information on the new excursion:

http://www.rockymountaineer.com/booking ... aineer.htm

It looks lie the Great Canadian Railtours Company will be taking over the Whistler Northwind. The new route will be from Vancouver to Whistler, then up to Prince George and finally over to Jasper. If they connect up with the Rocky Mountaineer, it will provide a loop round trip from Vancouver; that would be great.
I have taken the Rocky Mountaineer from Vancouver to Jasper..a great train trip! I also wondered if there were tracks from Jasper down to Banff. In other words, I wondered if would ever be possible to form a loop by a route from Vancouver to Banff, then up to Jasper, and back to Vancouver. I will say, even if it became possible to travel on the Rocky Mountaineer from Banff to Jasper, you would miss a lot of sights and short hikes that could only be accomplished by automobile. None-the-less, it would be a spectacular run if they could link up Jasper and Banff by train.

Finally, I took the Rocky Mountaineer a number of years ago, from Vancouver to Jasper. They had only the one service, then. Meals were at your seat...no dome car or dining car. I understand that the new "gold leaf" service does include the above. Anyone know more about the gold leaf service? Is it worth the additional cost?
Richard

"A very sad ending to what was a proud and impressive operation. There were days on which no fewer than 4 trains a day left the humble North Vancouver station. From the Royal Hudson, to the RDC's, to the dinner train, to the Northwind, it was all a very big loss in one shot."


There was a time when there was no direct road connection parallel to the train route and people used the train for transportation rather than sightseeing. Now there is a fairly high speed parallel road the whole way, and driving takes half the time of the train. So the only reason to take the train (a good one, I admit, but not enough of one to create huge traffic) is the views from the train. And even so, the views from the car are better, since the road goes over a high pass that the train avoids.

"I also wondered if there were tracks from Jasper down to Banff."

Not directly. Jasper to Edmonton to Calgary to Banff is the only way, most of it through low valleys and prairie. The scenic route from Jasper to Lake Louise that the Icefields Parkway takes has no tracks.

AlM wrote:"A very sad ending to what was a proud and impressive operation. There were days on which no fewer than 4 trains a day left the humble North Vancouver station. From the Royal Hudson, to the RDC's, to the dinner train, to the Northwind, it was all a very big loss in one shot."


There was a time when there was no direct road connection parallel to the train route and people used the train for transportation rather than sightseeing. Now there is a fairly high speed parallel road the whole way, and driving takes half the time of the train. So the only reason to take the train (a good one, I admit, but not enough of one to create huge traffic) is the views from the train. And even so, the views from the car are better, since the road goes over a high pass that the train avoids.

The 4 trains a day was 3 years ago, not 30 years ago....the road has been there since the 50's. The road has very little to do with the ridership on BCR passenger services, 3 of the 4 were sightseeing excursions. The road north of Whistler/Pemberton is not a highway. BC Rail carried more passengers in the early-mid nineties per year than ever before......


I posted in the CDN railfan forum earlier today about RMR getting the line.

I'm disappointed but not surprised that Rocky Mountain Railtours got the (North) Vancouver to Whistler tourist business. I was hoping that VIA would be able to provide passenger service to Prince George since they, as Missthealcos said, "would be the most appropriate operator of a REAL passenger service". While RMR will likely make money hand over fist with their overpriced luxury trains, the BC traveller will be shut out once again.

The other question is what effect this will have on VIA's Skeena. VIA altered the schedule of this train several years ago, making an overnight stop in Prince George, largely to accomodate tour operators. While I expect VIA will continue to provide a train service between Jasper and Prince Rupert, with most of their tour trade stolen, what will it become?

"The road north of Whistler/Pemberton is not a highway. "

It is now. 10 years ago a piece through the reservation east of Pemberton wasn't even paved, and 30 years ago the Cayoosh (sp?) Pass road didn't exist. But now you can average 80 km/hr between Pemberton and Lillooet.

But I would agree that whatever market was there for rail sightseeing a few years ago, that market shouldn't have diminished jsut bcause the road has gotten better.

I still would not consider the Duffy Lake road a highway by any stretch....it isn't much more than a paved logging road, wooden one lane bridges and all. It is also very frequently closed in the winter. There is little to no traffic on it at any time. I have been over it many times, it aint a highway. The Budd cars provided a perfectly viable and efficient service

Ken V wrote:I'm disappointed but not surprised that Rocky Mountain Railtours got the (North) Vancouver to Whistler tourist business. I was hoping that VIA would be able to provide passenger service to Prince George since they, as Missthealcos said, "would be the most appropriate operator of a REAL passenger service". While RMR will likely make money hand over fist with their overpriced luxury trains, the BC traveller will be shut out once again.

The other question is what effect this will have on VIA's Skeena. VIA altered the schedule of this train several years ago, making an overnight stop in Prince George, largely to accomodate tour operators. While I expect VIA will continue to provide a train service between Jasper and Prince Rupert, with most of their tour trade stolen, what will it become?

Via will be given a hard ride with the Skeena service, no doubt about it..RMR will do whatever it takes to discredit and bash the service.....they already do. The "NO Via" badges that the RMR officials and employees wear whenever they can(literally, a button with a red slash through the word Via) TOTALLY innapropriate as far as I am concerned...disgracefully unproffesional. I know people who work for RMR, and have dealt with them...they are not averse to doing just about anything to get what they want. The CEO is one step away from politician (I predict he will enter politics), and has ALOT of political pull and friends in high places. They give Via flack whenever possible in the press, go on about equipment age(even though 90% of their equipment is the same age or older), put down the service. RMR would like us all to believe that they invented the concept of passengers on trains, and specifically tourist trains.....They will go to great lengths to cover the fact that Via started the Rocky Mountaineer service, ran it for 2 years befor the cuts, very successfully I might add, and it wasn't any where near as exclusive. Even the name was originated by Via. Had they been allowed to continue without the cuts, Via would have done just as well with it, possibly even better, as they would have taken advantage of tieing it into the rest of the services, which would have been beneficial to both it and the rest of the system. RMR has never been anything but hostile, and does not encourage any use of Via's services in conjunction with its own. It could be a win win situation, but they dislike Via far too much for that. Via is in for a tough ride with the Skeena...it's one more reason for RMR to be even more hostile.

Also concerned about the future of the Skeena with the Rocky Mountaineer invading. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed my trip on the Rocky Mountaineer routes - and yes, Gold Service is over priced, but a once in a lifetime experience that justifies splurging!

I think I would have rather had VIA operate the service between Vancouver and Prince George - would probably have led to a year-round service and not just a tourist train. Let alone reasonable pricing! I like what Via has done with the Skeena and it could have done the same on such a Vancouver-Prince George route.

But wouldn't it be nice if the Rocky Montaineer would give up its stronghold on the Calgary-Kamloops-Vancouver (CP) route and allow Via to also operate on this route - as a passenger train to serve the people of this region, rather than an over priced luxury train for tourists. Would be a nice consolation prize for the Rocky Mountaineer invading the Skeena's turf! Fat chance I am sure!

Doubt we will see the fourth frequency between Jasper and Prince Rupert once the Rocky Mountaineer takes off in this region. Will Via eliminate the overnight stop in Prince George and operate continous to Prince Rupert as a result of the Rocky Mountaineer invading? Will the Skeena go back in time, and perhaps originate from Edmonton? Via's certaintly got enough equipment to offer overnight service on the Skeena route, with daylight running on portions as well.

Only time will tell.....

I wholeheartedly echo jp1822's comments!!!

Harold Nicholson

I don't think RMR will ever release its hold on the CP route(which would be a dream come true for many, including myself), and they have the politicians on their side, through all kinds of backroom deals and influencing. As for the Skeena, I wouldn't be surprised if it simply ceases to run eventually, the pressure will be very high.

I am still wondering what people in Banff and Calgary do for rail travel, if they don't want to take the Rocky Mountaineeer?
If there is good track from Calgary to Edmonton, how come VIA does not have a branch line from Edmonton down to Calgary? If you live in Calgary and want to head either east or west (through Edmonton then west) on VIA, are you out of luck? Are there bus connections between Edmonton and Calgary which link with VIA?