• New Atlanta Station

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by Trackside Romeo
 
Would Moving Atlanta's Amtrak station provide better incentives for more Intercity rail service from Atlanta's Amtrak station. I am thinking Construction of a new Intermodal transit center near GWCC would greatly help relieve congestion, because the location is well connected to points of entertainment and is well connected by MARTA. Furthermore, it could help revive hopes of commuter rail. What do you guys think of this plan ?

http://atlanta.curbed.com/archives/2014 ... r-mind.php
  by mtuandrew
 
Trackside Romeo wrote:Would Moving Atlanta's Amtrak station provide better incentives for more Intercity rail service from Atlanta's Amtrak station. I am thinking Construction of a new Intermodal transit center near GWCC would greatly help relieve congestion, because the location is well connected to points of entertainment and is well connected by MARTA. Furthermore, it could help revive hopes of commuter rail. What do you guys think of this plan ?

http://atlanta.curbed.com/archives/2014 ... r-mind.php
Moderator's Note: Welcome, Trackside Romeo! I'm going to move your question into the Amtrak forum (but there will be a link remaining here.) I suggest you look through the Amtrak and General Discussion: Passenger Rail forums because you're not the first to ask, and there are some pretty good analyses of the issues at play.

Amtrak Moderators: Would you mind merging this with the Station Developments thread (or whichever one is most appropriate?) Thanks!
  by MattW
 
It sounds great, but they've been trying to get a "Multi-Modal Passenger Terminal" built down there for years now. There's been some positive signs as of late with a new county joining the MARTA transit system with the idea of a commuter rail line being built soon and it will require somewhere to go in Atlanta. The problem with the Crescent is the routing, the best routing is down what is known as the Beltline, and old railroad right of way down the east side of the city, but the urban green nuts have gotten their hands and put trails and want to put light rail on it. It's wide enough for real trains and a trail or light rail, but definitely not all three. I hope it can be taken back, we don't really need light rail on that side of the city, not when there's a far better use. Without the Beltline, it's unlikely we'll ever see a downtown Amtrak station for Atlanta unless Amtrak reroutes the Crescent to go via Montgomery, or doesn't themselves mind a long backing move to/from Howell Junction while getting CSX and NS to agree to the same.
  by Station Aficionado
 
A new Atlanta station is a pony many people want, but we're not getting it (and, as Matt notes, there are complications even if a new station were built). I think the best that can be hoped for over the medium term (5 years or so) is that Amtrak can find a place to build a layover track near Brookwood so they can add and drop cars. Amtrak should go ahead and start the network of Thruway's mentioned in the Crescent PIP, and just have them run to Gainesville instead of Atlanta.

BTW, OT, but I just noticed mtuandrew's current location--welcome to the commonwealth!
  by David Benton
 
Running the Thruway buses from Gainesville is a practical solution. Overall trip times would be the same, if not shorter. Looking on Google earth street view, Gainesville has a nice station building with plenty of room for buses.
I'm actually wondering if buses from Gainesville to parts of Atlanta remote from Peachtree station would also be a good idea, to take the strain off Peachtree station.
As far as removing coaches/Viewliners from the Crescent for a same day turn back north, that could be done at Gainesville or Anniston,GA.
  by Bob Roberts
 
David Benton wrote:Running the Thruway buses from Gainesville is a practical solution. Overall trip times would be the same, if not shorter. Looking on Google earth street view, Gainesville has a nice station building with plenty of room for buses.
I'm actually wondering if buses from Gainesville to parts of Atlanta remote from Peachtree station would also be a good idea, to take the strain off Peachtree station.
As far as removing coaches/Viewliners from the Crescent for a same day turn back north, that could be done at Gainesville or Anniston,GA.
Two nitpicks (sorry, I don't mean to take away from your broader points which I am mostly in agreement with)

1) Anyone who has driven on I-85 between Atlanta and Gainesville any time of day knows that making this drive on any kind of schedule is not a "practical solution" nor will it be at any point in the automobile-based future This is arguably the most congested stretch of freeway in the US.

2) Anniston, AL (not GA) (sorry, about the obnoxious correction. State lines are a big deal between Alabama and Georgia, particularly during college football season)
Last edited by Bob Roberts on Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by electricron
 
Why remove, or add, a coach in Atlanta? Are there any advantages doing so for Amtrak? The argument that it'll save Amtrak any rolling stock at all is all imagination, every Crescent departing New York City each and every day will still be sized the same as it is today whether a coach is removed at Atlanta or not.
At best, there wil be some fuel savings by saving weight for the locomotive to pull for a portion of the route. But Amtrak will see additional costs parking, guarding, and cleaning the coach while it sits idle in Atlanta. Which actually costs more?
  by ExCon90
 
I thought the point of the suggestion was that if lower ridership south of Atlanta permits the removal of one coach, that coach can return to New York from Atlanta a day earlier than if it went to New Orleans and back. It's not so much the saving in fuel and wear-and-tear as improving car utilization.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote:"This is the place"
OH, OH; it appears that Mr. Ikea has different ideas regarding that space.
  by David Benton
 
Bob Roberts wrote:
David Benton wrote:Running the Thruway buses from Gainesville is a practical solution. Overall trip times would be the same, if not shorter. Looking on Google earth street view, Gainesville has a nice station building with plenty of room for buses.
I'm actually wondering if buses from Gainesville to parts of Atlanta remote from Peachtree station would also be a good idea, to take the strain off Peachtree station.
As far as removing coaches/Viewliners from the Crescent for a same day turn back north, that could be done at Gainesville or Anniston,GA.
Two nitpicks (sorry, I don't mean to take away from your broader points which I am mostly in agreement with)

1) Anyone who has driven on I-85 between Atlanta and Gainesville any time of day knows that making this drive on any kind of schedule is not a "practical solution" nor will it be at any point in the automobile-based future This is arguably the most congested stretch of freeway in the US.

2) Anniston, AL (not GA) (sorry, about the obnoxious correction. State lines are a big deal between Alabama and Georgia, particularly during college football season)
Thanks Bob. I punched in Anniston,AL into google earth several times before posting ,so no excuses there.

Traffic wise, It would have been the middle of the nite there, when I looked up travel times on Google Earth . I never allowed for the likely bus times to be in peak or the peak shoulder rush hour.
  by David Benton
 
electricron wrote:Why remove, or add, a coach in Atlanta? Are there any advantages doing so for Amtrak? The argument that it'll save Amtrak any rolling stock at all is all imagination, every Crescent departing New York City each and every day will still be sized the same as it is today whether a coach is removed at Atlanta or not.
At best, there wil be some fuel savings by saving weight for the locomotive to pull for a portion of the route. But Amtrak will see additional costs parking, guarding, and cleaning the coach while it sits idle in Atlanta. Which actually costs more?
Ron , here is Amtraks proposal from the PRIIA report.
"Consist and On-Board Service Optimization – Atlanta Cut-Off Cars
Since the train now known as the Crescent assumed its current route in 1970, ridership has
always been much lower on the portion of the route through the less densely populated areas
south of Atlanta. During most of the period from 1970 until 2003, both Amtrak and Southern
Railway (which operated the train until 1979) addressed this imbalance in ridership demand by
adding/cutting cars and locomotives at Atlanta and/or Birmingham. Prior to Amtrak’s
takeover of the Crescent route from the Southern Railway, the train also operated only three
days a week south of Atlanta.
At the present time, Amtrak operates the Crescent from New York to New Orleans without
adding or dropping any cars en route. Operating a train with the same coach, sleeper and food
service capacity on route segments with very different levels of passenger demand results in
low load factors and poor food service cost recovery that negatively impact financial
performance.
Amtrak proposes to reinstate the switching of cars in Atlanta to reduce costs and increase
revenues. The current Crescent consist of four coaches north of Atlanta is insufficient to meet
demand, while demand south of Atlanta generally requires only two coaches (three during
seasonal peak periods).
Under the plan, a fifth coach would be added to the Crescent (train 19) between New York and
Atlanta. At Atlanta, a locomotive and the last block of cars -- a lounge and two to three coaches
-- would be cut from the train. The remaining train, consisting of one locomotive, a baggage
car, two sleeping cars, the diner, and two or three coaches (depending on seasonal demand)
would continue its trip to New Orleans. The equipment cut at Atlanta would turn the same day
and be added to the northbound train 20 to New York. South of Atlanta, the dining car will
serve as the food service car for the train, providing both diner and lounge service and reducing
the on-board service staffing requirement.
The third peak period running coach south of Atlanta is projected to operate four months of the
year. Amtrak intends to operate it whenever there is sufficient ridership demand south of Crescent – Lake Shore Limited – Silver Service
PRIIA Section 210 Performance Improvement Plan

- 28 -
Atlanta to cover the costs of its operation. During special events such as Mardi Gras, Amtrak
will lengthen the train south of Atlanta if equipment is available.
The proposal to add and cut cars in Atlanta, and increase capacity north of Atlanta, will require
the reassignment to the equipment pool that serves the Crescent of one additional Amfleet II
coach during off-peak periods and two Amfleet II coaches during the peak period, and the lease
or reassignment of one switching locomotive to Atlanta. It will also permit reassignment to
other routes of one lounge car and one P-42 diesel locomotive. All single level equipment must
continue to rotate into Hialeah Yard in Miami on a regular basis for maintenance."
Link to whole report.
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/570/756/201 ... _final.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
  by electricron
 
David Benton wrote: The proposal to add and cut cars in Atlanta, and increase capacity north of Atlanta, will require
the reassignment to the equipment pool that serves the Crescent of one additional Amfleet II
coach during off-peak periods and two Amfleet II coaches during the peak period, and the lease
or reassignment of one switching locomotive to Atlanta. It will also permit reassignment to
other routes of one lounge car and one P-42 diesel locomotive. All single level equipment must
continue to rotate into Hialeah Yard in Miami on a regular basis for maintenance."
Link to whole report.
http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/570/756/201 ... _final.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So, it's not a plan to save money after all. It's basically a plan to add service north of Atlanta while maintaining the same amount of service south of Atlanta. The Crescent normally requires 3, possibly 4, trainsets from the single level fleet pool based in New York City. To add 1 coach during off peaks, and 2 coaches during peaks, they need to add those cars "daily" from the available pool in New York City, just as I wrote before. Somehow, they're suggesting they will be saving 2 to 4 cars for the other two trainsets required to run the Crescent..... How? Then there's more added expenses, keeping a locomotive in Atlanta all the time for switching the cars; parking, maintaining, and manning it; expenses they don't see today. How does permantely staging a locomotive save one locomotive from the pool? How does adding one or two coaches to the Crescent save just one lounge car? Shouldn't it be saving three of them, one for each trainset?

They aren't even being consistent, anyone can find savings when using funny math!
  by David Benton
 
By doing a same Day turn in Atlanta, you save 24 hours per trainset, so they would only need 3 sets of those coaches and lounge, rather than 4.
but I do think the PRIIA reports are not very well done, they don't seem to be very motivated to find real improvements/savings. One gets the feeling they looked for a few easy changes that might get done, and the rest are bigger projects that need capital or host railroad permission that is unlikely to come. Though that could pretty much sum up the challenges facing Amtrak L.D trains.
  by Rockingham Racer
 
Having taken a look at the current schedule, the dining car would be dropped right in the middle of the breakfast service, and added that evening at the tail end of dinner service. A schedule change would be in order to avoid this situation.
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