Need more cars? Try Michigan...

F40CFan wrote:I have to disagree that Metra knows what it is doing, based on conversations with some employees. I get the impression that management can't find their butts with both hands.

They can't wait to get rid of the Pullman cars, practically giving them away in some cases. Now they're buying them back, having to pay more for them, and then needing to refurbish them because they were not maintained by the previous owner.

They retire probably the best fleet of locomotives they had because they were "too old and costly to rebuild." However, the F40PHs that are to be rebuilt now are as old, or older than the F40Cs were when they were retired.

I won't even start with the new locomotives and rolling stock.

Allow me to play devil's advocate: Suppose for instance that there were no funds to buy the newer equipment, and as a result, Metra would've had no choice but to keep the Pullmans & the F40C's. Frankly, I'm not so sure that Metra would've been able to meet the ridership surge as well as they have if they had to rely on the older equipment. And while I'm sure the C's could've still held their own by and large, more cars would likely have been out of service, and the MED still wouldn't have bathrooms. True, this is hindsight and conjecture, but because Metra had to abide by the strings attached to the funding (i.e., getting rid of the older stuff), it eventually put them in a better position to both attract and retain new riders, or at least a majority of them for whom Metra is a viable option...

spatcher wrote:Most employees think that they can run the railroad better than management. In most cases they are wrong

You know, I get that distinct impression every time I visit the LIRR board...

Tadman wrote:Another take-home in this affair - railroaders mostly hate new equipment. If you check out this board well enough, you'll find hate towards the PL42, DE/DM30, MP36, M7, and HHP8. You cannot expect new tech equipment to work as well as something that's had the bugs worked out for 30 years, especially when the R&D was spread out over a 30-unit order of MP36 (total production run <500 units) instead of a 300-unit order of SD70MAC (with 3000+ unit production run), as the first BN order was in 1993.

Perhaps, but when you are riding in one of the new coaches which are more noisy and less insulated than the older cars you tend to agree with them. Also, as I've stated before, there are new coaches where you can see the ballast go buy between gaps in the vestibule stairs. I won't even go into the locomotives, I've documented their problems many times. These are real things you can touch, not perceptions. I do agree that sometimes people dislike new things just because they are new. However, other times there may be a reason behind it.

You all are missing something -very- important about these cars.

They -do not- have modern brake valves.

Due to these being first... and when they were made... Have the older D-22 brake valves. You have to do COT&S on them MUCH more often. COT&S means Clean Oil and Stencil. It requires all the brake valves be taken apart, oiled up, and a new date stenciled on them.

The rest of Metra's fleet have the normal 26-C brakes. These cars should be the only D-22 valved cars they had.

Which is why no one ELSE wants these cars.. the D-22 brakes require more maintenance. And require parts that are getting harder to find... and fewer and fewer people know how to work on them.

Yes you can upgrade D-22 to 26-C but at what these people are charging for the cars......

BTW, here are the cars.
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/met ... abcars.htm
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/sta ... ommter.htm

Alcochaser wrote:You all are missing something -very- important about these cars.

They -do not- have modern brake valves.

Due to these being first... and when they were made... Have the older D-22 brake valves. You have to do COT&S on them MUCH more often. COT&S means Clean Oil and Stencil. It requires all the brake valves be taken apart, oiled up, and a new date stenciled on them.

The rest of Metra's fleet have the normal 26-C brakes. These cars should be the only D-22 valved cars they had.

Thank you, I didn't know that. Forgive me for being dense, but is what you are saying that the original CB&Q coaches are the only ones with the D-22 brake valves?

Because by the time of next orders, CNW cars included. The 26-C brakes had become standard for new car orders.

Just curious...how involved is it to upgrade the brake system on a passenger car to something lower maintenance/more repairable? In the long run, I'm sure it would be cost-competitive to new equipment, given that a new car is about $2M and a stainless shell will last another 50 years. I'm just speculating here, but I would think the fact that these cars got parceled out probably had more to do with the politics attached to funding than any real desire of Metra's to retire them.