National Railroads Strike in September?

From reading the PEB documents, employees who leave are still entitled to their retroactive pay raise (back pay), but I assume not to bonus money.

I'd be careful about spiking the football too hard here before contract language is out.

There have been a bunch of high profile TA's turned down once the details were made public, and I know of one tentative agreement that was clawed back off the table before it even went out to a vote.

Sure, the Grand Lodge could have forced matters 15-20 years ago before social media and chatrooms....

Since then? Grass root efforts are a heck of a lot easier to take hold and overrule the higher ups and negotiating committees.

The bottom line is the workers are not going to get a better deal than the one their union agreed to. If they choose not to ratify the deal they just delay the inevitable imposition of the same terms that they are voting against. The public bullet points of the unions promoting the deal show that it is a good deal. If America sees railroad employees reject that deal they will lose any public support.

I believe most Americans would not mind getting the deal being offered to railroaders if they were offered that at their job (retroactive pay raises and bonuses, guaranteed future pay raises and freezes on the cost of medical expenses). Some of the other benefits may be harder for non-railroaders to understand - but if their union says it is a good deal why isn't it a good deal? It can the "grass root" railroaders convince the public that their unions are wrong?

Take the win. Fight for a better deal next time if something got missed.

It's interesting how much credit "The Big Guy" is getting for the deal, at least from the TV stations. The Labor Secretary, Marty Walsh, had to cancel his vacation to Ireland. He is the former Mayor of Boston and a former union official, and is as pro-union as you are going to get - in fact there were two scandals while he was mayor https://www.wbur.org/news/2020/02/12/ju ... lling-case and https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mass ... SKBN1AH3VP

I'm confused about the cooling-off period, which ended ~30 minutes ago. Did all parties voluntarily agree to an additional cooling off time to allow the tentative agreement to be ratified? If so, when is the new deadline?

[Edit - fixed Sec'y Marty Walsh name]

The pessimist in me says Biden is getting the credit because despite assurances otherwise, he's not likely to run again and can easily be the scapegoat for those who feel screwed by the process.

Neither side will take self-help as long as there's a tentative agreement on the table awaiting a vote.

There's no timeline, but typically you'll see language out within 15-30 days of the agreement, and another 14-30 days for the union to try and sell the deal to the members.

The moment that peace is shattered, both sides are free to act without warning.

I hope for the BLE-T's sake they had a firm agreement on the attendance issues. It's not uncommon for negotiators to get worn down and miss something that those outside the room will notice immediately.

freightguy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:10 pm I think Harry Truman was the last president to not have a college degree. Maybe they were onto something with that and today's institutions.

Mr. Freight Guy, more to the point is that "second leg of The Trilogy" - Taft Hartley - has provisions within it that can effectively obviate a union's right to strike. That provision is when the President believes "National Health and Safety" are jeopardized, and workers can be ordered back to work, under preexisting pay and conditions, indefinitely.

These provisions were no doubt formulated by strikes that occurred during The War (I've read books holding those years were not all "Remember Pearl Harbor" and "We did it before and we can do it Again") that probably did impede the war effort. President Truman, being a Democrat and by grace of being such, leaned pro-Labor, vetoed the legislation. However, Congress held by Republicans, overrode the veto (67% in both houses; mighty high standard to meet).

The Act, owing to its provisions for the PEB and the "cool off", has been deemed not to conflict T-H's injunction provisions. Incidentally, the other two "legs" of The Trilogy were first the Wagner Act enacted by FDR that was the first "foray" into government involvement in Labor Relations. The final leg, Landrum-Griffin, was enacted by Ike. The principal provision I took away from such (likely because much of my three years in Labor Relations was doing work relating to such) was the provision that an employee could take legal action against his own union for "failure to represent".

I of course defer to any here who are either barristers with experience in labor matters or anyone else who has experience within a union from "griever" to "General Chairman", for alll I have to put on the table is my three years within the field.

By the way, lest anyone interested, I was 4mo when WWII started; 5yo when it ended.

Liberal Times columnist Jamelle Bouie offers his thoughts regarding the dispute:

Fair Use:

The short story behind the now-averted railroad strike is this: The largest freight railroad carriers in the country were willing to cripple the transportation infrastructure of the United States rather than allow their workers to take the occasional day off to see a doctor or attend to their families.

Here’s the longer story. Earlier this week, unions representing tens of thousands of railway workers were poised to strike in protest of poor working conditions and low wages. Their complaints were straightforward. The two largest freight railroad carriers — Union Pacific and BNSF Railway — were using attendance policies that punished workers for taking time off from the job. “Engineers and conductors face penalties for taking any time off,” The Washington Post explained in its report on the labor dispute, “including weekends, outside of holidays and preplanned vacation, even in the case of emergencies.”.

"Gottaluv" his "all the road's fault" line of opinion.

But not for one moment am I saying Gray Lady should banish this man from her pages. She welcomes all opinions, as she always has over the 70+ years I've been reading, and Mr. Bouie's thoughts are as welcome as are the "conservative" thoughts of David Brooks.

Legitimate, non-snark question for GBN.

Pre-emptive statement: I still maintain contact with some crew people and others that have kinda sorta said the same stuff in that article. Where is the issue with those comments, please?

pablo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 8:00 am Legitimate, non-snark question for GBN.

Pre-emptive statement: I still maintain contact with some crew people and others that have kinda sorta said the same stuff in that article. Where is the issue with those comments, please?

Mr. Pablo, I have quoted your immediate in its entirety as I believe all of such relates to what follows.

I presume you are addressing the Jamelle Bouie column from The Times.

While I respect you note "non-snark", again I was careful not to express any opinion upon Mr. Bouie's thoughts.

Even though I grew up in a solid Republican household in solid Republican Greenwich CT (my Mother's family "hated" FDR so much, they emigrated to Austria - Wolfgangsee; near Salzburg during '34 - or just after my Mother graduated from college. Gee, why did they come back during '38?), my three years in railroad Labor Relations showed me there are "two sides".

I sincerely respect you, just as I do Mr. Bouie, whose material in The Times I always read.

I guess I should put in my usual disclaimer: author Long UNP

I don't doubt that at all: I have been here for many years, even in the earlier, original Railroad.net, too. I am certain in your knowledge.

And yes, it's that article you had cited. Separate from the author's clear bias...are the facts true, or are things incorrect regarding the potential contract settlement?

Thank you, Mr. Pablo.

Now first let us be clear; the let's call it a "piece" by Mr. Bouie is opinion. While he is on Gray Lady's payroll, he is in the capacity of a columnist. He is not a reporter. I sincerely believe The Times has an impregnable firewall between the "newsroom" and the op-ed functions.

Further, while I've posted this clip from NBC News earlier of this Union Pacific Locomotive Engineer "speaking from his heart", I believe it bears relevance to our, and Mr. Bouie's, respective thoughts:

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/vi ... 8456517734

I'm over forty years removed from the railroad industry; all any of us here can do is wait and hope that the "tentative" is removed from "Agreement".

Is everybody happy? Of course not!!!

The employees didn't get everything, and the Operating Employee working conditions have much more room for reform. The roads must and will raise rates, and even if such still more favorable than highway, the gap is narrowed and there could be "defections". For those shippers captive to railroad transportation, expect that box of Cheerios to cost even more. But this is what collective bargaining is all about - give and take.

BandA wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 11:35 pmHe is the former Mayor of Boston and a former union official, and is as pro-union as you are going to get - in fact there were two scandals while he was mayor

So you know he was union because he was involved in scandals? The more scandals the more pro union?

The union officials are in a position that they almost have to say they approve of the deal and not say anything different Otherwise the judges will bury them. They can even tell members to return to work but if the members do not it is a different matter. Have no idea what the members are going to do???

west point wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:58 pm They can even tell members to return to work but if the members do not it is a different matter.

Mr. (Captain?) West Point, to date, no one has left work to my knowledge. Has there been a "wildcat" somewhere?

This was posted before the tentative agreement. It answers some of the above questions and some of the above does not apply. Again take a listen. I will say Mr Norman this gentleman echoed a lot of what I posted about treatment and felt the same way as the freight engineer interviewed in your post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxAzTOJtCuk