MTA LIRR Double Track Project - Ronkonkoma to Farmingdale

MattAmity90 wrote:

Anna wrote:What could possibly change after finishing phase1 of this project? Is it about reliability of the current trains or will they add a train for reverse commuters?

Finishing Phase 1 is big because it gives all AM and PM Rush Hour trains a clear shot to just depart or arrive without any issues since the branch goes (as of right now) from double to single just to the East of the Pond Road crossing and stays like that all the way to just East of the Lowell Avenue crossing neighboring Central Islip. No more having to wait for the three vertical lights after an opposing train goes through the switch. Plus it is at the termination point! The whole point of the project is to complete what was left off after we electrified the branch in the 80's. We ran out of money to double track from Farmingdale to Ronkonkoma and electrify it in unison. We did manage to add a second track from JG Interlocking in Deer Park that goes all the way to the East of Brentwood, and double track from East of Carleton Avenue to East of Lowell Avenue. After it's all said and done, they will be able to divert an express around a local by using the second track instead of waiting in line like at a supermarket.

MA90:

The LIRR had two choices with the money available in the June 1985-January 1988 time period:

1-The Hicksville-Ronkonkoma Electrification as constructed OR 2-Retaining Diesel service on the branch with a second track...

The LIRR completed the H-R Electrification ON TIME and IN BUDGET - they did NOT run out of money to add a second track...

Back in Diesel days the weekday afternoon westbound gap between Ronkonkoma Branch trains was even longer: 4:29 PM and then 8:00 PM
leaving Ronkonkoma...

Farmingdale is NOT a MAJOR origin/destination point by any means - at best it is a intermediate origination or destination point.
Three eastbound and six westbound weekday trains originate/terminate at Farmingdale on the current schedule.

Hicksville, Mineola or Jamaica can fit the bill as a MAJOR station stop because of transfers between LIRR lines and other transit routes such as bus
routes of NICE Bus, MTA or NYCT Bus and Subway routes (E, J, Z) and the JFK Airtrain in the case of Jamaica...

Zhaos: Until any movement on the Hicksville-Floral Park Third Track Project there will be little effect on service until the third track gets added...

The MAJOR future schedule change is going to be when the East Side Access Project gets completed - that is looking to be at least 5 more years away
at this point - the Farmingdale-Ronkonkoma Second Track (which has received funding) may be finished before ESA opens...

DB: It will be interesting to see what KO1 and CI1 and CI2 will be changed. I think it will just be crossovers retained and/or reconfigured...
I noticed this past week that crews are back on the ROW between Ronkonkoma and Central Islip - good to see...

MACTRAXX

Oh, that's what I meant for Farmingdale. Intermediate Origination and Termination points.

Montuak/Babylon: Montauk, Speonk, Patchogue, Babylon, Massapequa (soon), Wantagh, and Freeport.

Port Jefferson: Port Jefferson, Northport, Huntington, Hicksville, and Mineola.

Ronkonkoma: Greenport, Riverhead, Ronkonkoma, and Farmingdale.

Port Washington: Port Washington and Great Neck.

Far Rockaway: Far Rockaway and Valley Stream.

Long Beach: Sometimes if something is going on between Long Beach and Lynbrook, then Lynbrook sometimes serves as an intermediate.

As for the Ronkonkoma-Farmingdale update, I saw in pictures taken in late May that they were connecting those sections with the rails welded to ties together and placing them next to the existing track on the ballast, digging at the Ocean Avenue crossing to make way for surfacing and converting the crossing into a 2-track crossing, and I'm pretty sure that they have leveled out the rest of the ballast through the whole section where there is no embankment left it's all smooth and ready to go.

So, please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understood:
1. Phase1 of double track project (which is supposed to be finished in Sep '16 looking at their schedule) will not add new offpeak trains in west or east direction. It will just improve service of current trains.
2. Phase2 will also not add new offpeak trains in either direction. It will improve service of current trains even more.
3. Third track project from FP to Hicksville *along with second track project) could add new offpeak trains?
4. Finished East Side Access Project with double and third track projects will add new offpeak trains (in about 5 years).

5. I have one more question about morning eastbound train from Penn (offpeak). When can we expect new trains there? Is there a debate to add new trains in this direction? There is only one at 7:39. When (after finishing which phase of which project) will it be possible to add new offpeak trains in the morning?

Thanks,

Northport isn't a termination point. Stony brook has one train a day that originates there, but northport doesn't have anything that ends or begins there

Anna wrote:So, please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understood:
1. Phase1 of double track project (which is supposed to be finished in Sep '16 looking at their schedule) will not add new offpeak trains in west or east direction. It will just improve service of current trains.
2. Phase2 will also not add new offpeak trains in either direction. It will improve service of current trains even more.
3. Third track project from FP to Hicksville *along with second track project) could add new offpeak trains?
4. Finished East Side Access Project with double and third track projects will add new offpeak trains (in about 5 years).

5. I have one more question about morning eastbound train from Penn (offpeak). When can we expect new trains there? Is there a debate to add new trains in this direction? There is only one at 7:39. When (after finishing which phase of which project) will it be possible to add new offpeak trains in the morning?

Thanks,

Anna: Here is what I think -
1- This should improve service of current trains - there may be additions if it is possible.
2- This should complete the second track between Farmingdale and Ronkonkoma offering more flexibility.
3- Provided the current Floral Park-Hicksville Third Track Project survives NIMBY challenges and actually gets built that is when trains can be added.
4-ESA - and its to-be-implemented major schedule changes-may affect LIRR commuting patterns in a unprecedented way.
5-You may see some changes at first but without the necessary track additions and changes there will not be major schedule changes.

MACTRAXX

Thanks.

So, when we will know? I looked at LIRR official page and Phase1 should be finished in Sep '16. The train that interest me the most is 7:39am train eastbound, which is a little bit late for me (it's around 9am in Ronk). If they would add a new train half an hour earlier, that would be just great. I'm not sure if it's possible after Phase1 or even Phase2.

This description based on publicly available contract solicitation documents circa 2015, at that time this is what was planned:

From West to East:

• FARM-1 gets 1 new crossover, becomes 2-track / 2-crossover (with same access to north track).
  Equilateral Y removed from FARM-2, (no more need to merge).
  New "FARM-3", single switch connecting east end of the long freight track.
  New "DANCH" 2-track / 2-crossover interlocking, just west of Wyandanch D.E.F.
  JS becomes 2-track / 2-crossover.
  New "PILGRIM" on westbound, controls single trailing switch for access to Pine Aire freight track.
  New "PINEAIRE" on westbound, controls single facing switch for access to Pine Aire freight track.
  BRENT is removed.
  Existing CI-1, CI-2 removed, new "CI" is 2-track / 2-crossover interlocking west of station.
  West end KO-1 modified to support second track; new crossover west of Pond Rd.

Also of note: The new eastbound track will follow the alignment of the existing "Route 231 freight track", so NY&A won't be able to stash aggregate cars there any more. Astro Ready Mix (Eldee/PC Richards) will apparently have to be re-aligned / re-built to connect to the new eastbound as well.

Another interesting thought is where Train #200 might originate once this new track layout is completed and westbound AM reverse-commute service begins. Perhaps in Farmingdale? (I suppose the 3rd main line would have to be finished as well)

Let's see if I have this correct: You board a Ronkonkoma-Bound train at Hicksville, and this is what you experience on a map:

-The black lines indicate the crossover switches and freight tracks that will still be there.
-Hicksville is half blue and half purple because it is both a Port Jefferson/Huntington Branch and Ronkonkoma Branch station.
-The Blue lines indicate Port Jefferson/Huntington Branch tracks.
-The Purple lines indicate Ronkonkoma Branch tracks.
-The Purple line that goes further South is the Central Branch.

Anna wrote:
So, please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understood:
1. Phase1 of double track project (which is supposed to be finished in Sep '16 looking at their schedule) will not add new offpeak trains in west or east direction. It will just improve service of current trains.
2. Phase2 will also not add new offpeak trains in either direction. It will improve service of current trains even more.
3. Third track project from FP to Hicksville *along with second track project) could add new offpeak trains?
4. Finished East Side Access Project with double and third track projects will add new offpeak trains (in about 5 years).

5. I have one more question about morning eastbound train from Penn (offpeak). When can we expect new trains there? Is there a debate to add new trains in this direction? There is only one at 7:39. When (after finishing which phase of which project) will it be possible to add new offpeak trains in the morning?

Thanks,


Did Anna just say that ESA will be done in 5 years? She's kidding right?

MattAmity90 wrote:Let's see if I have this correct: You board a Ronkonkoma-Bound train at Hicksville, and this is what you experience on a map:

-The black lines indicate the crossover switches and freight tracks that will still be there.
-Hicksville is half blue and half purple because it is both a Port Jefferson/Huntington Branch and Ronkonkoma Branch station.
-The Blue lines indicate Port Jefferson/Huntington Branch tracks.
-The Purple lines indicate Ronkonkoma Branch tracks.
-The Purple line that goes further South is the Central Branch.

Don't forget to squeeze in Republic station.

I do remember hearing Nowakowski say that a completed KO double track without mainline third track would lead to one extra westbound AM Peak train. However, I don't recall him ever saying how many more reverse AM peak trains could be achieved.

That's it roughly. KO is like this=

onorclose7 wrote: Did Anna just say that ESA will be done in 5 years? She's kidding right?

I'm starting to wonder when NY state's going to pull the plug on it. Cuomo's in a tough position. Kill ESA, he risks losing the suburban vote. Kill the 2nd ave, he risks losing the NYC vote.

Who am I kidding? Downstate will vote for him next time around no matter what.

I do remember hearing Nowakowski say that a completed KO double track without mainline third track would lead to one extra westbound AM Peak train. However, I don't recall him ever saying how many more reverse AM peak trains could be achieved.

Oh, that's sad. I thought there are enough AM peak trains westbound - the service is just not as reliable as it could be (delays). That makes impossible to run any train eastbound (there is one veery early and one pretty late). There is no AM reverse train in "normal" morning hours.

A work crew is installing a chain link fence and clearing brush along the south side of Long Island Ave between Wyandanch and Deer Park.

Yesterday I spotted flat cars loaded with concrete ties on the siding by the old Deer Park station.