Morris Park questions

Two (for now, expect more).

What length is the turntable at Morris Park?

When did they tear down the west buildings around the transfer table?

I'm breaking down, and finally getting my butt back into model railroading. So, since I have all these HO LIRR engines (RS-1s, RS-3s, S-1s, Baldwin, FMs [yes, even got two CPAs] and a brass 420), seems best to build a module of Morris Park (somewhat smaller of course).

BTW.. Google Earth is real handy for getting a good view of the current Morris Park configuration.

Speaking of Morris Park, the transfer table "ist kaput, mein herren." It is filled with piles of sandy dirt. When was the last time the table was used?

If you know the length of an ALCO C420, perhaps this photo will allow you to interpolate approximately the correct length of the Morris Park turntable:



Determine the approximate scale, using a compass or dividers, etc. as you would with a scale of miles on a map, based upon the known length of the ALCO unit. Then measure from the visible end of the turntable at the right (short hood of the locomotive) to the power line support bridge, multiplying x 2 as the bridge is at the mid-way point of the table.

This should give you some sort of idea of turntable length.

Dave Keller

Good idea Dave. I was thinking along similar lines... I downloaded Google earth last night, and there is an excellent view of Morris Park. I'll post an image this evening. The turntable appears to be the length of locomotives parked around it.. I'll need help to ID the locomotives, though I imagine they are DEs or DMs.

BTW.. from your photo, the turntable appears to be approximately 100 feet long (math said 98 feet, but it is difficult to discern eactly where the end under the short hood end is located). I used the center to center truck spacing (34ft 5in) from http://hosam.com/alco/cent.html since the end plates at teh bolsters are very easy to see.

Thanks!

Pat

Pat:

100' sounds about right.

Glad my idea helped.

Dave Keller

OK, here's an overhead from Google earth. On the left are three identical units that are DEs or DMs, right? These are 75 feet long (see DE30AC/DM30AC), so the math says the pit is about 84 feet, though it is difficult to determine where the DE/Dm starts/stops. 84 feet is a good ways off from 100 as we determined earlier. On the other hand, if I include the white border, then the math comes out to almost exactly 90 feet.

A mind-boggling shot when one realizes from how far away it was taken!!!!!

I don't know that turntables were built in odd lengths. I would have to think multiples of 5' - 0".

I think that white border is the top of the concrete edge of the pit. The tracks would sit on top of that. Perhaps the table is 90' - 0". Perhaps it's 85' - 0".

Dave Keller

P.S. Clemuel, Dick Glueck, JJ Earl, UN Block: any ideas here, guys?

I found another photo of the turntable which shows that the end of the turntable overhangs that white border.

So, I went back to the Alco 420 photo and redid the analysis. If the end of the turntable is where I now think it is, then the math comes out to just under 92 feet, which, given the somewhat limited precision that I have, means the number almost certainly is 90 feet.

More info... from Morris Park (Hey, that's the site that has Dave's books!)

There is a drawing of Morris Park by Stephen Rothaug which indicates the turntables at Morris Park are both 80 foot.

Pat:

That's my friend Steve Lynch's website: www.trainsarefun.com.

Where do you see the 80' turntable designation on the link you supplied? I'm missing it.

Dave Keller

The 80' designation is for the turntable at the Richmond Hill Storage Yard opposite Morris Park Shops on the north side of the Montauk branch embankment.

I don't believe the maps are drawn to scale, so I wouldn't use that as an accurate designation of diameter for the table at MPS as there is no dimension provided at that table.

Dave Keller

No way is it only 80 ft. A DE or DM which are 75ft long fit on the table with a Dinky. The table is at least 90 ft long if not 100 ft as some one said earlier.

I think the Table is 90feet, anything more looks too big for the park I doupt is 100feet or longer

The table has to be at least 90 feet. During the steam era K4s were turned. A K4s with tender is approximately 85 feet.

Took the words right out of my mouth about the K4s and tender.

80' - 0" is not possible. That dimension indicated on the hand-drawn map mentioned above had to be only for the turntable at the Richmond Hill Storage Yard which usually only turned cars (open and closed-end observations for example), not locomotives. It was air-powererd, BTW while the one at MPS is (was?) electric.

JJ Earl told once in an earlier forum thread about it being his job, when he first hired on, to turn cars on the Storage Yard table.

I'd lean more towards the 90' - 0"+ range for the table at MPS.

Dave Keller