MOM Rail Service

baju wrote:I was just looking at the NJT and MOM websites and came across this statement..."FTA extending project evaluation year to 2030" can anyone explain what this means? I wonder if there is any chance that construction will start by the year 2020. Or shortly after the new tunnel is finished? Anyone have any fresh insights?

Heck I might even have service before then. How many years have they been talking about this anywho?

Kaback9 wrote:http://www.app.com/article/20090425/NEW ... 004/NEWS01

Gist of the article is either a transfer station in South Brunswick, or using the Amboy Secondary to South Amboy.

My thoughts, Amboy Secondary would be nice but its not state owned they would have to talk to Conrail about it. A transfer Station in South Brunswick might not be a bad idea, its not ideal but its a start.

I think the transfer station in South Brunswick is a very good idea (and could get the line moving because the trains wouldn't have to deal with Newark and NYP). I do not think that the Amboy Secondary is a good idea, as the trip times would be absolutely horrenoudous. Imagine how long it takes to get to South Amboy on the Coast Line.......and to have to go out to Jamesburg, then back to Freehold, then to Farmingdale, then down to Lakewood and Lakehurst? Jeez, you could sell an all day excursion pass on that!

The transfer at South Brunswick, or better yet, adding a track next to Track 1 up to a new Jersey Ave station/South Bruswick/Johnson and Johnson/whatever, so there is absolutley no Amtrak interference would be a better idea, and they could transfer at a station where in theory trains could originate from (if Jersey Ave/South Brunswick) trains still exist in the future. It would be costly to build along side the NEC, but have a switch and have like a terminal of sorts there, so it goes to two tracks at the station, and then single track from there back to Midway, where there could be another siding on the MOM line up to Midway so there would be able to be a train coming into South Brunswick, while already a train there waiting to pick up folks to go west down MOM.

but that would require a change in the "one seat ride to NYP" mentality at NJT. And I dunno if we are there yet.......

Matt Johnson wrote:One thing I will say is that current schedules make it difficult to live in Port Jervis and commute by train to a job in Bay Head.

I once bought a ticket from Port Jervis to Bay Head and the look on the conductor's face when she saw it was priceless.

Kaback9 wrote:http://www.app.com/article/20090425/NEW ... 004/NEWS01

Gist of the article is either a transfer station in South Brunswick, or using the Amboy Secondary to South Amboy.

My thoughts, Amboy Secondary would be nice but its not state owned they would have to talk to Conrail about it. A transfer Station in South Brunswick might not be a bad idea, its not ideal but its a start.

The tunnel expense problem makes a good amount of sense. I think the Amboy Secondary is a great solution around the problem, if Conrail is cooperative on the matter. I know that the current trackage would allow for trains to come off the Amboy Secondary and head east on the NJCL (and vice versa) even though Essay is slow.

Now here's a question I have - with that new track realigned just east of South Amboy which goes on a bridge over the NJCL - does that connect to the Amboy Secondary headed west?

If so...could NJT run NJCL service off-peak where passengers could change at South Amboy (high platform) for a same platform change to a MOM shuttle on Track 2? Between that and peak service direct to NWK/HOB/PSNY(?), I think the Amboy Secondary could be a direct MOM line which would be cost-effective to build.

yes, that track that comes into South Amboy Station area does connect to the Amboy Secondary going west, that is called the Church Running Track and meets up with the track that goes to the Coast Line going east, which is the Essay Running Track, up by the Substation near the Conrail/NJT border, which is called CQ.

However, trains would have to head west to South Amboy Station, and a new crew would either have to get on, or the engineer would have to change ends, and a new brake test would have to be given - not a big deal, but time consuming and a potential trouble point if the train wouldn't cut in or out or whatever. Of course, an off peak transfer wouldn't be a big deal, but then you are clogging up the now 2 track Coast Line through South Amboy - something like that would have worked well when it was still 3 tracks through the station.

Again, I think there is a big problem with the Amboy Secondary route in that the whole route would be a total zig zag, which would slow train speeds and increase running times. Trains would head Southwest on the NEC (RR west), then at Rahway, turn South on the Coast Line (RR west again) then South West on the Amboy Secondary, to turn in Jamesburg to South East and some places East on the Freehold Sec, and then to turn again South/South west in Farmingdale.

Realistically, how fast would train speeds be at Essay, going up the hill towards the Amboy Sec? 15mph? Then the Amboy Sec isn't gonna be 80mph running, I seriously doubt, 60mph at best. Then, how fast would it be through towns like Helmetta where the track is right there? My guess would be 40mph if your lucky, probably 30. Then Jamesburg, again, how fast would the turn be at the wye to head west down to Freehold? then the running through the middle of downtown? I know a routing via MJ would require going over that same trackage, and the speeds would be slow too, but you are saving the time elsewhere.

Build either the station at Monmouth Jct, or a new track ALONGSIDE the NEC up to a new station in South Brunswick or Jersey Ave area and have transfers there to Jersey Ave trains.

Again, in my opinion, of course....

Maybe the biggest problems with the Monmouth Jct. route ("true MOM") as currently proposed are not with operational issues such as corridor capacity and ARC but with NIMBY/political intransigence in Jamesburg, Monroe and South Brunswick.

Maybe a new east-west ROW needs to be acquired that bypasses the NIMBY 3 - something in the vicinity of Federal Road off the Freehold up to the Turnpike and then continuing into Plainsboro (avoiding developed residential areas as much as possible) that is well south of the Jamesburg bottleneck, the "hundreds" of daily school bus / rail crossings in Monroe and the obstructionist mayor of South Brunswick. This "fantasy" ROW would also have the benefit of offering a higher speed connection between the Freehold Sec and the NEC.

Why suggest this now?

First thing is that the Feds are printing money. Some people may not like that. Some people may. But if there is a chance to tap into funds that this state may never be able or politically willing to provide, it might be time to get MOM in line for some of that dough.

Second thing is that with the general weakness in the real estate market, landowners who will either be asked to sell an easement or sell their property outright are probably more motivated to do so than they might have been a year ago. Acquiring the land for such a ROW might never be as possible as it is right now.

Third thing is that this project uses existing rolling stock - nothing that has to be invented. Change in Newark for PATH or trains to NYP or stay on board for Hoboken. Choice is a good thing.

D'Amico said in written comments that the alternatives would offer the benefits of the Monmouth Junction line — getting traffic off Route 9 and providing mass transit for Ocean and western Monmouth counties.

This is the whole purpose of the MOM route, to provide an alternative to Route 9 for residents of Western Monmouth and Ocean Counties. The Amboy secondary sounds interesting but the trip times would be unbearable.

I think the transfer station in South Brunswick is a very good idea (and could get the line moving because the trains wouldn't have to deal with Newark and NYP). I do not think that the Amboy Secondary is a good idea, as the trip times would be absolutely horrenoudous. Imagine how long it takes to get to South Amboy on the Coast Line.......and to have to go out to Jamesburg, then back to Freehold, then to Farmingdale, then down to Lakewood and Lakehurst? Jeez, you could sell an all day excursion pass on that!

The transfer at South Brunswick, or better yet, adding a track next to Track 1 up to a new Jersey Ave station/South Bruswick/Johnson and Johnson/whatever, so there is absolutley no Amtrak interference would be a better idea, and they could transfer at a station where in theory trains could originate from (if Jersey Ave/South Brunswick) trains still exist in the future. It would be costly to build along side the NEC, but have a switch and have like a terminal of sorts there, so it goes to two tracks at the station, and then single track from there back to Midway, where there could be another siding on the MOM line up to Midway so there would be able to be a train coming into South Brunswick, while already a train there waiting to pick up folks to go west down MOM.

I like this idea for a couple of reasons, first the former Johnson and Johnson property is already in planning for a mixed use business, residential, retail center that would include a rail station on the NEC. I would not like the idea of a transfer station being built at Midway, then building another station at the Johnson and Johnson property, and then the station at Jersey ave etc.. Way too close to each other, build the Johnson and Johnson site station that would act as the transfer station for the MOM-NEC, and close down the Jersey Ave station. I checked Google Earth it's 4.4 miles from the MOM line to the Johnson and Johnson facility. There's an Amtrak MOW yard there, with plenty of room to expand.

I wonder if anyone from NJT reads this? I see a lot of good ideas here, without lots of money being dumped into more and more studies. I understand that certain protocols have to be followed for NJT to get anything done, so let's get going on them. The roads aren't getting any emptier.

I see a lot of good ideas here, without lots of money being dumped into more and more studies.

The studies are a way to prevent decisions being made. Middlesex county politicians will not allow the governor or legislature to approve MOM as originally proposed. Because the alternatives are clearly not as good and probably would not pass federal government muster to get matching funds, we get endless studies.

"The studies are a way to prevent decisions being made."

Well said!

Back in the press again.


From the Asbury Park Press:

Two ideas that could help get the Monmouth-Ocean-Middlesex train line built and strengthen the case for the Monmouth Junction route preferred by Monmouth and Ocean counties have been broached by Monmouth County Freeholder John D'Amico. Both make sense. NJ Transit should incorporate the ideas into its ongoing study of alternate routes.
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Preliminary NJ Transit findings determined the Monmouth Junction alignment would generate the most ridership of three alternatives considered, but Middlesex County officials have fought it. A costly tunnel deemed important to the Monmouth Junction project also has made it less attractive.

D'Amico suggests two ways to make the tunnel unnecessary: build a far-less expensive walkway over the tracks at Monmouth Junction to allow passengers to board Northeast Corridor trains or allow the MOM line trains to use a freight track to join the North Jersey Coast Line near South Amboy.

The freeholders asked NJ Transit to study those options in the agency's draft environmental impact study. NJ Transit should use some of the funding recently approved by Congress to advance the MOM line to review the two ideas.

NJ Transit officials also should sit down with all interested parties — including the New Jersey Association of Railroad Passengers, which supports the Monmouth Junction route — and hammer out an agreement that will finally get this proposal on track and moving. With decades of studies behind them, and federal stimulus dollars available to projects that are ready to go, now is the time for action on the long-overdue rail service plan.

Just think:

A station out side of Jamesburg, one by Route 18 near Browns Yard and

a big park and ride in the old coal yards in South Amboy from the Parkway for rail, bus and ferry to all points.

If Middlesex County and towns within it (namely Jamesburg, Monroe and S. Brunswick) are against the Monmouth Jct route, what makes ANYONE think they would be willing to have the line run through and "distrub" MORE towns within Middlesex County by running up the Amboy Sec?

All these "alternatives" is what got us in this position in the first place.

Choose a route and go with it. That route should be Monmouth Jct and focus on how to build a station there in Monmouth Jct or a new track along side the NEC up to a new station buit in South Brunswick at the old JandJ plant (or is that North Brunswick?) - I remember one of their concerns was having a station at MJ and then another station up at J and J. See, that problem is solved now. Along with having to build a tunnel/bridge over the NEC at Monmouth Jct,which is an Amtrak concern.

I agree that the Monmouth Jct route is the best route, however, are Monmouth County officals trying to talk to Shrewsbury, and Tinton Falls and Eatontown on the Red Bank route and trying to get them to change their resistance to that routing, and the same with the folks along the Matawan Route - those towns who are against that - Freehold Township, Marlboro and Aberdeen Township? While those routes would be less than ideal, they are still options (and already studied, countless times) and really, there is resistance on EVERY route, and it seems that Monmouth County is trying to force it down Middlesex County's throat, while they are aren't willing to put it down the throats of towns within its own borders. And suggesting ANOTHER route through Middlesex County is going to help how?

Thats not to say im against MOM, Im all for it, and I FIRMLY believe that BOTH the Red Bank and Monmouth Jct routes should be built with transfers at REd Bank AND Monmouth Jct/South Brunswick, and forget the "one seat" ride mentality. But offering another "alternative" which would run thorugh MORE "hostle" territory, and would be longer, slower and REALLY zigzagging, isn't a way to win over Middlesex County officals towards the Monmouth Jct route.....

In my opinion, of course

Thats not to say im against MOM, Im all for it, and I FIRMLY believe that BOTH the Red Bank and Monmouth Jct routes should be built with transfers at REd Bank AND Monmouth Jct/South Brunswick, and forget the "one seat" ride mentality. But offering another "alternative" which would run thorugh MORE "hostle" territory, and would be longer, slower and REALLY zigzagging, isn't a way to win over Middlesex County officals towards the Monmouth Jct route..

Jt that is exactly how I feel at this point.

I feel that if all the existing options present problems, they should just build a brand new elevated 300 mph maglev right of way with a connection at either New Brunswick or Matawan via Freehold!

E-44 wrote:Maybe the biggest problems with the Monmouth Jct. route ("true MOM") as currently proposed are not with operational issues such as corridor capacity and ARC but with NIMBY/political intransigence in Jamesburg, Monroe and South Brunswick.

Maybe a new east-west ROW needs to be acquired that bypasses the NIMBY 3 - something in the vicinity of Federal Road off the Freehold up to the Turnpike and then continuing into Plainsboro (avoiding developed residential areas as much as possible) that is well south of the Jamesburg bottleneck, the "hundreds" of daily school bus / rail crossings in Monroe and the obstructionist mayor of South Brunswick. This "fantasy" ROW would also have the benefit of offering a higher speed connection between the Freehold Sec and the NEC.

Why suggest this now?

First thing is that the Feds are printing money. Some people may not like that. Some people may. But if there is a chance to tap into funds that this state may never be able or politically willing to provide, it might be time to get MOM in line for some of that dough.

Second thing is that with the general weakness in the real estate market, landowners who will either be asked to sell an easement or sell their property outright are probably more motivated to do so than they might have been a year ago. Acquiring the land for such a ROW might never be as possible as it is right now.

Third thing is that this project uses existing rolling stock - nothing that has to be invented. Change in Newark for PATH or trains to NYP or stay on board for Hoboken. Choice is a good thing.

Not sure how familiar you are with the area, but there was a proposed Route 92 that was to run from Route 1 to the NJ Turnpike through South Brunswick and connect near Exit 8A. The project was abandoned in 2006, but it was to be a new roadway on a newly acquired ROW.

See this link; Unbuilt Route 92.

You can clearly see the Conrail line in the map provided in that link, and this road was to run just south of it. If you ever wanted to forward your idea even further, this ROW would be a start.