MOM Rail Service

ApproachMedium wrote:The stuff to new brunswick will get done, the plans and stuff are already set forth, however it appears in any recent renderings i have seen that the loop is eliminated.
I cant see the purpose at all of a loop for trains that are 100% push pull. Maybe build a Wye off the Milstone running track to turn trains if there is a control car issue but other than that, its a huge waste of time and money.

What is the plan then? A flying junction over/under the corridor? That certainly could work and would have smaller footprint than a loop (and hopefully be cheaper).

There is no plan for any kind of loop turn around fly over whatever. its a line that runs along the corridor from new burnswick to the new adams interlocking. Two tracks just for NJT, and a 12 car S&I shop at jersey ave. Thats it.

A flying juntion or over under has a massive higher cost than a loop. Have you seen how high it would have to go to clear the NEC wire if it went over? And if it went under, they would have to tunnel under everything. The grades would be quite long to be able to turn passenger trains.

No disagreement here. I know that a flyover/flyunder will be extremely expensive for what it is worth it. From what you are describing that means that trains will still need to cross the express tracks at grade somewhere. A flyover or a loop under the corridor for what is basically an yard always struck me as excessive.

I think NJT has only one active flyover and that is Kearny Junction and most of it was kind of built by the predecessor railroads.

They (Amtrak) built it with the intent of a fly-over to be built later on by NJT. There were plans for westbound crossovers to the Delco lead at ADAMS and DELCO from 4 track and then a flyover loop to come back down into a future "A" track south of 1 track west of Adams MW base with another eastbound crossover to from A to 1, so they could loop back east.

From the Department of Dumb Questions, and at the risk of teeing people off:

Diesel Light Rail? Straight east from Trenton along I-195, dip down to Six Flags, back up to 195, then down the abandoned Freehold Secondary to Manasquan. It really isn't much longer than Trenton - Camden, and in theory has a smaller footprint.

Keep in mind that MOM is oriented at commuters heading north towards NYC, not west to Trenton.

On the related note, the old PRR Sea Girt to Trenton run or, in a nod to mtuandrew, a run along I-195 (no ROWs exist) is not a bad idea. I have been making that run on I-195 since the mid 90's and have seen traffic increase 50 fold as all those new housing developments went up (especially between Jackson and Hamilton). Coming home thru the Bordentown twist to the Turnpike has turned into an absolute nightmare. It's faster to take side streets.

Doesn't matter in the big picture since there won't be money for new ideas. Can't afford to maintain what we have.

CJPat: True re: New York commuters. Shame there was never a railroad that directly paralleled US 9 Perth Amboy - Toms River - AC, because everything else points the wrong directions.

Technically the rails did go in the right direction. You have to look at it with 50+ year old eyes. New York/Newark & Philadelphia/Camden were the main travel Hubs in New Jersey (Civil unrest and the exodus of manufacturing devastated Newark & Camden). New York & Philly were also hit hard, but were able to survive better.

All the rail lines pretty much headed to these locals because they were centers of manufacturing. Actually the reason there were any cities was because they were the center of manufacturing for their areas - out west they may have started out based on agriculture and livestock, but quickly developed beyond that.

Now as far as paralleling Rt 9, you could grab the CNJ in Newark and drop south along the what is now called the Chemical Coast joining the NY&LB at Perth Amboy, split off at Red Bank and run as the Southern Divsion to Lakehurst and jump off to run the Barnegat Branch to Toms River, Forked River to Barnegat (the last portion directly adjacent to Rt 9. The CNJ stays within 5 miles of Rt 9 almost the whole length. The Southern Division overall was more like the rail version of the Garden State Turnpike.

South Jersey Shore points (Toms River could be viewed as a hinge point) was of more interest to Philadelphia tourists which is why the PRR and Reading running out of Philly handled the majority of traffic and tourists.

I think in order to get anything done, there should be some sort of public-private partnership to get the MOM line going.

They could strike up a deal with NIMBY's to only have commuter trains during rush hour (maybe 2 every 45 minutes or so between 6 AM and 9 AM, and do the same between 4 PM and 8 PM).

Not to mention if real estate is thrown in, a public-private partnership could be extremely profitable for both sides, and would certainly make commuting easier.

If only common sense could prevail.

They've spent million$ on studies. But all you have to do is sit in the area of the Parkway and Route 37 in Toms River during rush hour to see that it is needed.

My plan is simple. Get off Ciba-Geigy's back for a few years in exchange for a park-and-ride in Toms River, activate the Barnegat Branch back to Lakehurst, and then north via the Southern Division to either Farmingdale, and then west to Jamesburg, or continue north to Red Bank.

Two or three trains in the morning, and two or three returning in the evening.

If the "heavy concentration" of trains on the NJCL is a problem, maybe someone should look closely at the signaling system. A train every half hour doesn't sound like "heavy concentration" to me. CNJ and PRR trains used to run just minutes apart, with plenty of room for each other.

The whole affair is frustrating at best. If Jamesburg people can teach their kids not to walk out in front of truck traffic on Route 522, they can teach their kids to stay off the ROW. They can take whole neighborhoods away from people with imminent domain, so why can't a few trains be put into operation without public input?

Supply and demand. We need it. Stop fooling around with endless expensive studies. Do it.

10 years later and stIll only talking about it. Let's face it this will never come to be with the budget cuts imposed on NJT year after year.

FlashingAspect wrote:10 years later and stIll only talking about it. Let's face it this will never come to be with the budget cuts imposed on NJT year after year.

This is why I'm hoping a private entity will step up to the plate.

GSC wrote:If only common sense could prevail.

They've spent million$ on studies. But all you have to do is sit in the area of the Parkway and Route 37 in Toms River during rush hour to see that it is needed.

My plan is simple. Get off Ciba-Geigy's back for a few years in exchange for a park-and-ride in Toms River, activate the Barnegat Branch back to Lakehurst, and then north via the Southern Division to either Farmingdale, and then west to Jamesburg, or continue north to Red Bank.

Two or three trains in the morning, and two or three returning in the evening.

If the "heavy concentration" of trains on the NJCL is a problem, maybe someone should look closely at the signaling system. A train every half hour doesn't sound like "heavy concentration" to me. CNJ and PRR trains used to run just minutes apart, with plenty of room for each other.

The whole affair is frustrating at best. If Jamesburg people can teach their kids not to walk out in front of truck traffic on Route 522, they can teach their kids to stay off the ROW. They can take whole neighborhoods away from people with imminent domain, so why can't a few trains be put into operation without public input?

Supply and demand. We need it. Stop fooling around with endless expensive studies. Do it.

NJ government has a habit of half-arsing things. I really wish they'd start doing what other communities in other states (and countries) are starting to do, which is get private entities on board for infrastructure projects. Infrastructure itself isn't very profitable, but if you develop shopping malls and such near it, it can be a literal gold mine, as you *literally* have a captive audience (if you're on the highway, realize you need milk, and see a department store at the next exit, you're probably going to take it).

Really surprised no company has shown interest in this recently. The line goes through some REALLY booming towns, and there's potential to buy land, and put both stations *and* a shopping mall on it.

Anyone know any investors?

JohnFromJersey wrote:NJ government has a habit of half-arsing things. I really wish they'd start doing what other communities in other states (and countries) are starting to do, which is get private entities on board for infrastructure projects. Infrastructure itself isn't very profitable, but if you develop shopping malls and such near it, it can be a literal gold mine, as you *literally* have a captive audience (if you're on the highway, realize you need milk, and see a department store at the next exit, you're probably going to take it).

Really surprised no company has shown interest in this recently. The line goes through some REALLY booming towns, and there's potential to buy land, and put both stations *and* a shopping mall on it.

Anyone know any investors?

Except that shopping malls are going on life support as greater numbers of folks prefer to shop and purchase online.

Ken W2KB wrote:

JohnFromJersey wrote:NJ government has a habit of half-arsing things. I really wish they'd start doing what other communities in other states (and countries) are starting to do, which is get private entities on board for infrastructure projects. Infrastructure itself isn't very profitable, but if you develop shopping malls and such near it, it can be a literal gold mine, as you *literally* have a captive audience (if you're on the highway, realize you need milk, and see a department store at the next exit, you're probably going to take it).

Really surprised no company has shown interest in this recently. The line goes through some REALLY booming towns, and there's potential to buy land, and put both stations *and* a shopping mall on it.

Anyone know any investors?

Except that shopping malls are going on life support as greater numbers of folks prefer to shop and purchase online.

Shopping centers of some sort. As of now, the internet has not been able to cook and serve food for people (believe me, someone will find a way), so restaurants could still go in. You could always put offices in of some sort, maybe an amusement park, museums, theaters, etc., and places like Lakewood seem to always need/welcome more residential units.

Malls still have the benefit of going out and meeting people, and are usually safer/much more reliable when it comes to purchasing things.

Either way, real estate would have to be a part of the deal if a private enterprise was going to go through with the MOM line.