Metra 421 Friday January 2cd 2009

Hello Jents
I am wondering what Genius decided to run MPI 421 on Metra North LIne train number 2121 after it failed do to a broken water pump and failed again at both Edgebrook and Northbrook, I am also wondering while a rescue engine was not sent out to hook up on to that scoot. I was on that train and saw it got back at Libertyville sounding like it was so sick it needed to be shot.
Number one most importent. I DONOT BLAME THE ENGINEER HE WAS ONLY FOLLOWING ORDERS.
BUT DO BLAME WHO DECIDED TO KEEP IT RUNNING.
I also here by name Metra MPI 36 421 SOOON TO BE GLUE
These things are a discrace

Without knowing the full details, it's not unheard of for trains that become disabled to wait for its follower to hook on to the hind end and push it for the rest of its journey, but in this case, it's likely that crew considerations played a role in the decision. The crew on 2121 heads home after arriving Fox Lake, and even when running on time, they're still putting in a 10+ hour day. And with its follower more than an hour behind, you've essentially got two choices: Either limp along at a restricted speed (as long as you're not totally dead, but likely risking more damage to the unit until it gets swapped out when it returns to CUS), or sit and wait for a push, as the crew dies on hours. For better or worse, Metra chose the former. It's also important to note that if the latter option had been chosen, it would've shot the rest of the evening schedule to hell due to the cancellations of several other later trains in both directions, since 2121's equipment is used for other runs throughout the evening. In the end, it's better for a couple of those trains to be delayed than to not run at all, if it can be helped...

Here's how it all went down, guys:

#2121's initial failure was at the Grayland station. Meanwhile, the late-departed #7 had _just_ gotten by A-5, and thankfully the veteran C&M dispatcher (a really good guy, by the way) was right on top of things, and arranged with A-5 for it to back up into the first crossover, after 2138 got by, so it could go west on no. 2 and cross back over at Mayfair in front of the disabled 2121. This would have been a smart move that would not have caused any delay to any other trains, since the far-off #2140 was the next eastbound, and the inbound NCS was still a few minutes away. Well, by the time #7 completed the back up move, engr. on 2121 was able to get 'er going again, albiet at reduced load. When word of this got to a certain Metra official - whom shall remain nameless on this Public Forum - he decreed to the A-5 operator that 2121 was to continue on as-is, and #7 would cross BACK OVER TO 1 (yes, making that whole back up move a waste) and follow it! So, while 2121 was waiting for a lineup from CY, the crew of #7 - understandably upset with this decision - was making some calls of its own. Even the engineer on 2121 called back to A-5 and said something like, "Uh, did you check with the dispatcher about this?" Even he knew it would be stupid to have other trains following right behind him. Of course, though, the decision stood, and before long #337 was joining in on the parade too.

Even after 2121 got going, it still would have been prudent to let 7 get around it, but just take it up further to either: a) Morton Grove, probably causing a small delay to the already late 2121 while 7 dwelled at Glenview; or b) A-20, probably causing a small delay for 2140 at Northbrook. Either delay would have been minor in comparison to the extra 20-minute hit that #7 took by dragging behind 2121 all the way to Rondout. But then, there are certain people at Metra who refuse to let their precious scoots be delayed even one second by Amtrak.

Ironically, that inbound NCS ended up being delayed outside of A-5, while #7 was sitting in the plant trying to get this hare-brained decision reversed before its ugly fate was sealed for good. So, for those of you keeping count, the "powers that be" at Metra managed to take one guaranteed-delayed train and turn it into four!

Anyways, while I disagree with the way the situation was handled, I don't necessarily disagree with running the engine out once it got going again. Though Western Ave is pretty close by to Grayland, a rescue engine dispatch depends on two things: a free engine sitting around with a current daily inspection and locomotive air brake test already complete, and an available crew who is qualified on the road and not just, say, the yard and A2-Chicago. I would say it would be pretty damn lucky if both of those components were in place and ready to go on a moment's notice. I'm sure you've noticed that the only engines sitting around that yard are usually 611+614 (not going to have current paperwork), whatever's in the shop (same), and a yard goat (slow, and most likely has a MAS of 50mph or less). Notably, 421 was able to get up to 40-50 mph between Lake Forest and Rondout on its limited load, according to the engineer.

Does anyone know what happened to this engine/trainset when it finally got to its endpoint? Did it have to turn and come back into town the same way?

EricL wrote:Even after 2121 got going, it still would have been prudent to let 7 get around it, but just take it up further to either: a) Morton Grove, probably causing a small delay to the already late 2121 while 7 dwelled at Glenview; or b) A-20, probably causing a small delay for 2140 at Northbrook. Either delay would have been minor in comparison to the extra 20-minute hit that #7 took by dragging behind 2121 all the way to Rondout. But then, there are certain people at Metra who refuse to let their precious scoots be delayed even one second by Amtrak

Unbelievable. So you're saying that the C&M dispatcher wasn't authorized to move 7 around 2121 at Morton Grove or A20 even though it's his railroad north of A5? I didn't know Metra had that kind of authority, despite the fact that Amtrak trains are supposed to get to priority, but apparently, this isn't always the case...

EricL wrote:Does anyone know what happened to this engine/trainset when it finally got to its endpoint? Did it have to turn and come back into town the same way?

Well, I do remember seeing 2146 being advertised as delayed due to "mechanical problems" on Metra's website on Friday, so yeah, I guess it did have to limp back to CUS. Don't know if it was swapped out, or doubleheaded with a protect unit once it got back downtown.

But anyway, thanks for the additional clarity, Eric...

All I have to say is its ironic that this happened on the same day that they put 611 back into storage. 611 was fueled and should have been ready to go but that namless official is so scared that the F40Cs will break down. They will run circles around those things that Metra calls Locomotives. I agree with you Eric that #7 should have been allowed to run around the disabled train and I thought the C&M dispatcher had the authority to make the decision.

I dunno, the fact that the the 611 was running sans a HEP load (i.e., not in "screamer" mode) and doubleheaded with another unit would indicate that it was more or less on the point of that train for show. If it had failed en route - not necessarily an unlikely occurance for a locomotive that's been in outdoor storage for three years - the engineer would have simply isolated it and it would have effectively been a cab car. Such a locomotive, of questionable integrity, would NOT be what you want to send out to rescue a stalled train.

byte wrote:I dunno, the fact that the the 611 was running sans a HEP load (i.e., not in "screamer" mode) and doubleheaded with another unit would indicate that it was more or less on the point of that train for show. If it had failed en route - not necessarily an unlikely occurance for a locomotive that's been in outdoor storage for three years - the engineer would have simply isolated it and it would have effectively been a cab car. Such a locomotive, of questionable integrity, would NOT be what you want to send out to rescue a stalled train.

Perhaps, but it was out running and I believe the only problem I heard of was with the ditch lights. They could have used 421s HEP and 611 for motive power. This just goes to prove that Metra should keep 611 and 614 in proper operating condition. No matter how badly they want to retire them, they still have a purpose.

An employee told me he believes the major reason the F40Cs don't run on regular basis is that it would embarress certain Metra officials.

byte wrote: Such a locomotive, of questionable integrity, would NOT be what you want to send out to rescue a stalled train.

I'd perfer a locomotive of questionable integrity for the purposes of rescuing a train to having 27 locomotives of questionable integrity in regular daily service.

Ok back again on this one.
Number one I do not live in Libertyville but love the town and towns along that line.
What happend was as I Said the 421 went back into Chicago sick, what happens with that set is that the crew on 2121 takes it out to Fox Lake and the crew of 2146 a fresh crew gets it. the 421 must have failed for good somewhere between Libertyville and chicago for between what I was doing in Libertyville all I saw on out bound scoots were Those peices of Junk rolling by the only time I saw F40S was on the double header and that was running 2141s turn not 2143.
At about 720 that night I get wondering How I am going to get home. Finally at about 810 2157 commes rolling into Libertyville about and hour late with the 421 and -2m 212 on the point, 212 sounding like its HEP was off.
That is why I am wondering, the 421 was starting a possible all night run and to fail so close to Western.

Here's a bit of irony. This morning (1/7/2009) 421 is sitting in Union Station as protection power.

If running the F40Cs would embarrass some Metra officials, perhaps they should get rid of the officials and keep the locomotives.

F40CFan wrote:If running the F40Cs would embarrass some Metra officials, perhaps they should get rid of the officials and keep the locomotives.

Heh. But I'm not sure I understand how running the C's would embarrass anyone at Metra; not only was an MP was used as a protect unit during 611's brief outing, but the funding used to procure the new units had that "get rid of your old junk" string attached. They kept those two because they're the only ones that Metra actually owned outright (due to the dissolution of its original owner NORTRAN, the others were leased from WSMTD), and the new units, problematic as they are, aren't going anywhere, so what's the problem? Besides, with the F40 rebuild program going on right now, Metra was actually smart to keep the two C's in "stored serviceable" status on the roster, and with the periodic breakdowns of other units (and please remember that breakdowns aren't just confined to the MP's), they may still need them to pinch hit every once in awhile, especially if/when other units are sent to alleviate temporary power shortages elsewhere on the system as has been done before...

Actually, 611 (51) was a NWSMTD unit. The NORTRAN units were 53 (613) and 54 (614).

http://www.drgw.net/~f40c/nwsmtd/51.html

The reference to embarrassed Metra officials was in response to a post by IlliniFan above.

doepack wrote:the new units, problematic as they are, aren't going anywhere, so what's the problem?

I think you answered your own question

doepack wrote:Besides, with the F40 rebuild program going on right now, Metra was actually smart to keep the two C's in "stored serviceable" status on the roster, and with the periodic breakdowns of other units (and please remember that breakdowns aren't just confined to the MP's), they may still need them to pinch hit every once in awhile, especially if/when other units are sent to alleviate temporary power shortages elsewhere on the system as has been done before...

Isn't there a difference when a 20-30 yr old locomotive breaks down compared to a 5-6 yr old locomotive breaking down? The F40s are getting tired, bottom line. They can't be rebuilt quick enough. The MPs needed to have the bugs worked out of them, but in reality, I don't think they will have the service life that is needed out of them compared to the F40s. Better buy some stock in duct tape and bubble gum.