M-1 Question

So on the conductor panel, the top two and bottom two buttons are for trainline doors closed?

I ve corrected my error after your hint

RC '75,

To prevent door operation at undesirable times, there are two ways that the door control functions on all the MDKS panels in the train are locked out.
The first is via the No Motion Relay or Velocity Zero Relays.
The gist of this is: if the car is moving, why would I want to be able to open the doors?
The second way the panels are locked out is by an Override trainline, generated when the Master Controller handle is in a power position.
Again, it only makes sense that if the engineer is calling for power, we don't want the doors to be able to be opened.
The engineer can also manually generate an override trainline, by pushing and holding the "Door Hold Closed" button.
This is also a handy button to use when the train crew has two stations energized. It will kill all the stations, so the doors can be closed from any panel.

The M-7 MDKS panels have LEDs on them that reflect the status of the No Motion and Override functions. (When keyed in)

Is the conductor signal (buzzer), used to buzz the engineer?

Thanks DutchRailnut & N340SG for all the great info. Thanks...

yes the conductor buzzer is the train signaL THE CREW uses to communicate with each other.

So where were the ashtrays when there were smoking cars? There doesn't seem to be a trace of where they were.

That is a good question and I used to ride in a smoking car on the 5:05 to Hempstead in the early 80's everyday! I don't think the location of the ashtrays really mattered though as the car floor was usually littered with butts anyway.

That was kind of what I figured. :D

I guess the Clean Train Campaign didn't include not putting your butts out on the floor.

BTW There is at least one MU set in service that has an all-weather carpet down the aisle of both cars. I don't remember its number. It must have been one of the interim designs between all carpet and all tile floors.

Have all the M-1's had their wooden paneling removed from the vestibule area? With the paneling only remaining at the ends of the cars? It appears that the M-3's have the wooden paneling around the vestibule.

Have the M-1's had a minor renovation in the past few years? It seems like beside the obvious differences, (air intake, indicator lights & side opening window) the M-3's look just like the M-1's, but more then a 15 year difference.

RC '75,

There have not been any changes to the faux wood finishes in the M-1 or M-3. There are some M-1 cars that have a beige color in lieu of woodgrain look in places. I think that's what you may be referring to. AFAIK, these cars were always that way. At least, they've been that way since I've been around. (1982)
The M-1 and M-3 were intentionally designed to look as much alike as possible. The M-3 was ordered to increase capacity and complement the M-1 fleet. Interoptability was a design requirement. So, I guess they figured that they might as well make 'em look similar, too. Don't forget that development costs would also be reduced considerably by dusting off an existing design and just modifying whatever you can improve on.

I always thought the M-3 and M-1 were the same, save for the blowers, bigger motors, and different lousy riding truck design (though in all honestly, the Pioneer III is quite nice on good track, it just stinks on bad track).

How come the LIRR ditched inboard bearing trucks for the M-7's? Just didn't like the existing offerings, or was it BBD's call?

The M-1 and M-3 may look similar topside, but under the floorline there are many differences.
As many of you know, the trucks are different, and not interchangeable.
The M/As are also different, and not interchangeable.
The propulsion system, while the same basic design as the M-1, has a host of changes. The forced air cooling for the traction motors is but the beginning. The propulsion power contactors in the M-3 (L,S,PK,PM,G...that is...Line, Series, Parallel K, Parallel M, Ground) are air-actuated, therefore not interchangeable. (Dynamic Brake and Field Shunt contactors are the same as M-1.) Not one of the printed circuit cards for propulsion or M/A in the M-3 is the same as any card in the M-1. All the panels that hold those cards are different. (Modular LRU design in M-3.) The ATC package is different from the M-1. Etc, etc, etc.

So, like, do the new inverter fed fans on the rebuilt M-3s vary speed any? The RR could score a few points with locals around yards if they had the fans kick down to, say 40% speed when the train's just sitting in the yard. Or even better, kick down after 1 minute of rest whenever the train's stopped or not drawing power. You can do so many nice things with off the shelf inverters

Oh yeah, the button in the ceiling's for the crew use? Hehehe, passengers push it too!

Has the 'push to talk in an emergency' button become a 'push to vent to the crew' button yet? I've heard the NYCTA has had that problem with the new subway cars.

Nasadowsk wrote:So, like, do the new inverter fed fans on the rebuilt M-3s vary speed any?

No, sir. Nothing fancy like that. The traction motor blower motors only come on when someone has a Master Controller key in, and generates trainline #9. (That's the same modus operandi as before the retrofit.)
And the PSDR (Propulsion ShutDown Relay) circuit has to see air flow equivalent of at least 2 inches water column when the blowers are on, or you have a dead car/no cam. So, slowing down the fans would likely not cut the mustard for airflow requirement.

The potential bad sidelight to the 220VAC traction motor cooling blower motors is that if you do have an M-3 inverter go down, you now have both cars in the pair dead/no cam. With the OEM M/A and 750 VDC blowers, only the "A" car would be dead if the M/A went down. (The M/A is one of your traction motor cooling blowers. It has the "A" car "B" end truck traction motor cooling fan attached to it.)

Remember that the Redbirds have asbestos. That made NYCT to reef the cars instead of scrapping them. Even if the M1 has asbestos, why weren't they reefed?