LIRR Special Trips

We see that Metro North regularly schedules special trains, and not all are "fare well's" or "special location" fan trips, for example there Easter bunny trip posted in the PHOTOGRAPHY thread.

What is it within the LIRR that they cannot compete with MN or they cannot even make and attempt to run these trips? it seems that after Gene, left 204 the Era of fan trips left with him. the last special train I was on with special tickets was the dinner trip to east Hampton where we reserved the cab car on a revenue train.

From those in the know, what does it actually take to assemble these excursions and to allow these trips to run.

and in the case of LIRR not owning any more equipment with low boarding, what would it cost or involve or both to borrow a train set from MN at least boms? though that’s getting too far at this time.

Their are also a lot of freight buff's on the island, what would it take to run a photographers special with NYA geeps, and some empty freight cars. and put a hack or 2 or 3 on the rear and run on rare mileage? LIRR engrs would have to run it because their qualified on the branches NYA is not and by letting LI men run it they won’t be breaching contracts.

I can only ask, to see what would go into making something a reality,
and with the current attitude toward it, the best I can see would be a M1 trip. but even that’s a start.

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Oh for craps sake..have we not been through this enought already?

I won't be interested in taking a buff trip on the current diesel equipment. They look very general and mainstream.

The past diesel fleets had character and actually could be found under the term "true railroading."

I don't see how a 8 car double DM consist can compare to 2 38's, a FA-2 powerpak, 3 parlor cars and 10 coaches.

If you can give me a reason to believe otherwise, I stand firm with my opinion.

The costs of running such trips are incredibly high. If you try to lease equipment from other railroads, you drive the price up even higher.

One of the main hinderances of any excursion nowadays is the high cost of obtaining liability insurance. It's much easier if you charter a train from the host passenger railroad (as they already have the insurance), but why would you pay extra to charter a DM or DE train to let's say Montauk when you could take the same regular train for half the price? If you're going to run an excursion using existing equipment, there has to be another hook to get people on the train.

I hate to say it, but many rail buffs are on the thrifty side. A good number will chase it to take pictures of it, and this doesn't help you to even break even on the venture. The general public (i.e. non-railfans) are your market, but even then, you need a hook.

If you want something unique like chartering an NYAR photo freight using LIRR crews, you'd have to pay two sets of crews (Just as NYAR can't haul passengers, LIRR can't haul freight either). Let the insurance companies know you're looking to run a mixed train, and you probably won't get a policy either.

Jay

In terms of running a mixed train.

How was that considdered legal when some of the LIST trips did so with more then just a few hacks? How did they get a policy? when NYA ran their trip on the bush that time, how did they get permission and a policy to do that, yes there was not freight cars but still?

The reason I awaken the subject is becaus if other MTA companies can or do something "buff" related, why can't the LIRR. I post it becaus I just don't know my self.

for example, on the freight idea I mentioned, if both LIRR and NYAR made persons rideing the trip sign a waver "not" holding the RR's accountable for injury due to one's neglegance? is that a posibility? how would somehting to that effect work? all persons participating in a trip would be required to ware railroad atire and what not.

lets get NYA out of this, and just with the LIRR, I know once when thins were possible. Oh so long ago, that they ran a cabin car consist with a few hacks and 2 or more pullmans(I don't know the # of pullmans). If the hacks are considdered freight cars, how did the LIRR get insurance to cover that trip? What does modern society, and the bull that you can get sude for looking at some one the wrong way have to do with it, if any?

Jay's the only one bringing up good point's and things to discuess.

In terms of the "old equipment" I am refraining from posting about that subject matter. As I do not wish to catch hell from my Fellow meuseum members, chapters , and what not. That is not what this topic is about.

*Disclaimer*

I started this topic to discuess "special trips" and the possibilities of seeing another one. we can also get off that topic and talk about past trips and how they were planed and carried out.

This thread is not to be abused. I'm usally the first to fire off and say something stuipd when something ticks me off, and I'm just asking you to not ruin the topic. I feel it can be discuessed in an approiate mannor on this forum.

Jay is the only one bringing up good points and things to discuss because everybody else is tired about hearing this stuff. Jay is also a real railroader and knows what the LIRR will say when people start asking about a fan trip. It will never happen. If you want to ride a buff train, ride the head car of an MU train or go to Metro North. The employees that had sway and were able to organize a fan trip are gone.

Joe

Jay said it the best way posible. Its just not gonna happen these days.

When Gene ran those trips, he must have had many connections to get things done, or he just knew how to do it as part of his job. Things were different back then in alot of ways. When we ran the Project 39 trips, we never had any injuries or problems & the LIRR crews worked with us (or let us work with them). This made it easier for the next trip.

For the LIST trips, Gene was the one with the know how. Plus, all the trips had a good mix of equipment and locations to go too. These just don't exist any more.

Going one more step, if not for the MP15s, there's not much to see on the LIRR, let alone run on a trip. We'll just have to wait for 35 & 39 to get running.

Joe, you were talking to me before about how if down the line once 39 or 35 are in running condition, if we had a fan trip involving those engines on the Montauk branch that it would be cool to have someone temporarilly on duty at PD to hand up an order. You wouldn't even really need someone on duty to do hand up an order.....just pick a random person to hold the hoop with a paper clipped to it to simulate a hoop up as the train does a photo run by. My dad was at a Rutland Railroad convention where they had a special train run that day (Green Mountain RR # 405 pulling their old wooden passenger car with a few other coaches) and at one of the stations they had the train do a photo run by with someone simulating an order hoop up. They went all out to set it up too. They arranged with one of the members who owned an old car to drive it over and park it next to the station so that it could be in view for the photos. hehe.

Ray,

I have many excursions actually written out on my old PC some of wich use the meuseum(s) peices, but thats a whole different topic simply becaus talking about our inputs on meuseum train runs will start falme wars here.

but off sight I plan and have a good time at it.

If Meuseum higher up's whom post will allow a topic along the lines of
"your inputs on proposed excursions useing the meuseum(s) equipment"
then either I or they can start it. but I just don't want my topic here being locked because of RMLI flame wars.

Joe, what museum equipment?! The only thing that even has a remote chance of ever seeing the open road again is 1556, and that seems pretty far off itself. All of that other stuff is beat to crap and lacks even the most basic certifications to run on LIRR trackage; I would be willing to bet I could disassemble those coaches out there with my bare hands! Having never been on the old equipment, I would love to see a fan trip as much as anyone here, but its not feasible! I do not mean to go off on you, but my friend, you have to realize this is NOT going to happen!!

Kyle,

Thats why I DO NOT want to bring up meuseum equipment in this topic.

You see that MN can run a easter bunny train, and mostlikely they are running a privite charter. I don't know for shure.

Now, why can't LIRR hold a similar trip for the youngsters of long island and not charter a train but charter a car out for them on a regularly scheduled train? that would cost hardly nothing compard to a chartered train?

please leave RMLI and others out of this.

Fair enough, Joe; you did mention the equipment in your last post, so I took it to mean that was the direction you we were steering the thread; my mistake I guess. Anyway, children are our future, the present belongs to us! The LIRR allows parties to reserve as car on regularly scheduled trains, so why don't we get a group to reserve a car on a Montauk train this summer and walk the old wye or something?

Now thats something, that's a possibility. have a lunch or dinner trip to the east end or something.