LIRR Branch timetables: Some ideas to improve them..

Everyone: I collect RR timetables and I do collect the LIRRs (and for this matter Metro-North's) branch line TTs. I recall the LIRR began to issue these TTs with the May 20,1974 issue. It introduced the color coding used to this day. They were based on the PC Metropolitan Region branch TTs-now MNCR and had well laid-out schedules and info. I have seen them evolve and change over time. Mistakes such as dropping the train numbers out of them in the mid 90s were corrected and information pertaining to the specific branch was added or deleted. Many interesting special issues for trackwork or special events were issued. With the LIRR current TTs effective March 6th I noticed a new typeface for all the 11 forms issued. On the back bottom the original form #s were brought back-Ronkonkoma is Form 3,for example. On the schedules themselves I believe these improvements should be made: Instead of the repetitious "AM or PM PEAK" over and over again use shading as in the MNCR TTs and was used in the LIRR TTs up to the early 90s. This shading would be headed with the caption "AM or PM PEAK-PEAK FARES APPLY IN SHADED AREA". The train numbers should be moved back to the top of the columns instead of the bottom when they were restored about 10 years ago. I recall pointing out the subject of train #s to a LIRR manager and he said something that stayed in my mind "Why would you NOT want more info?" Back in the 80s the LIRR TTs had info such as arrows in columns of nonstop trains,notations such as REVISED SERVICE and NEW SERVICE for schedule changes and info such as VIA CENTRAL or VIA HICKSVILLE when trains traveled that way or if a train listed in the Ronkonkoma branch TT went on the Montauk Branch the listing would be the train's terminal "TO PATCHOGUE" would be listed. These are just some thoughts and suggestions. Does anyone have any thoughts or any other ideas on the LIRRs Branch TTs? MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX:

If you're referring to the 3-ringed binder style ETT, they were first introduced in May, 1970. They were issued that year jointly with the old-style, bound books. So, in actuality, there were two styles of ETTs in official use that year.

The following year the bound books were no longer in use and the binder-style went into full use.

I have samples of both in my archive.

Dave

Dave: I an referring to the branch line PUBLIC TTs. That info is interesting nontheless-when the LIRR went to a loose leaf ETT as opposed to the bound book. I remember that the LIRR discontinued public TT folders about this time period-from 1970-71 to May 1974 the only TTs available to the public was the TDI TTs,interestingly enough! MACTRAXX

Too bad all the lines use branch line timetables now. "System" tables used to be good because you could find connections, etc. which are now a match for anyone's wits. I have a 1950 and a 1949 LIRR system tables which are quite revealing of operations, more so than individual line tables. THe same for DL&W of the 40s through 60s. Today such tables would be excellent marketing tools for LIRR, NJT, and MN if used right.

Apologies for introducing a bit of nostalgia. About 1950 or 1951, I wanted a LIRR Form 1. Realizing that information booths in those days stocked timetables of many railroads, I asked under the clock at Grand Central Terminal. Sure enough, the clerk gave me an Form 1, which I then took to Jamaica to observe a Friday afternoon rush hour. While I was using it as guide, a trainman came over to me, "Hey, kid, where'd you get that timetable?" I thought he was accusing me of stealing it, but he was satisfied with my explanation. Nowadays, I wonder whether GCT stocks MTA-LIRR timetables. About three years ago, I inquired at the LIRR information booth adjacent to the ticket windows in Penn Station. "No. We don't carry Metro-North timetables." How helpful?
This morning, I asked at Wantagh for a new Oyster Bay timetable. I'm glad the ckerk had a supply. When I visit Glen Cove late in the day, the waiting room will probably be locked.

BellSt:

Remember: Back in 1950 and earlier, the system of selling inter-line tickets was still in use. You could go to a LIRR station and route a train trip across country if necessary, checking your bags and taking a coach to Penn Station and a sleeper/parlor from there to your destination. Each agency had an up-to-date copy of the Official Guide to the Railways so clerks and agents could route you from point A to point B.

It was common for larger terminals, such as Penn Station and GCT to stock timetables of railroads in the surrounding areas.

The last LIRR Form LI-1 system-wide timetable was issued in 1964. 1965 saw the beginning of the branch-line-only timetables.

Dave

Better idea for improving branch timetables? Shave some running time off 'em...

Dave and Bell St: In the NRHS collection the last folders we have are Form B NY/Bklyn-Greenport and form D NY/Bklyn-Montauk dated May 25,1970. The very last folder we have is form A: NY/Bklyn to Hempstead,Oyster Bay,Port Jefferson and Ronkonkoma dated October 19,1970. These TTs are blue and white with the MTA M logo. Was this the very last issuance? On the subject of getting MNCR current TTs from the LIRR they sometimes have them at the customer service office in the main waiting room at PSNY. I do not recall if MNCR has LIRR TTs at GCT-I sometimes bring some LIRR TTs over to the station master's office or customer service so I can obtain quantities of MNCR TTs I need. I seem to recall judging that they are glad to get them that the LIRR does not send any TTs over to GCT. A system TT would be nice-but un-necessary with the branch line TTs. Us rail buffs can decipher the LIRR with the branch line TTs well enough in my opinion. UPDATE: Upon further investigation in the NRHS collection I have found the following: Forms B and D the same as listed above dated May 20,1968-the last Dashing Dan issue. Dated November 25,1968 we have: Form A-Hempstead,Oyster Bay,Port Jefferson and Ronkonkoma;Form B-Greenport;Form C-West Hempstead,Far Rockaway,Long Beach,Babylon and Patchogue;Form D-Bellport,Speonk,the Hamptons and Montauk;Form F-Shea Stadium/Flushing thru Great Neck and Port Washington and Form L-NY/Bklyn-LIC-Jamaica. These are all MTA style blue and white. Dave and any other collectors in the know: Can it be determined when the LIRR issued their last TT folders in this time period? Thanks all in advance - MACTRAXX

Dave: Found here in the NRHS Collection is Form LI-1 dated September 14,1964 - a World's Fair issue. Was this the very LAST LI system TT? MACTRAXX

Mactraxx:

Yes, that was the LAST form LI-1 issued.

As for the MTA blue-and-white covered TTs: My archive has branch tables issued through May and June of 1972.

I have no others until May of 1974.

It's strange that I never bothered to obtain public TTs during this 2-year period, but, as I had my ETT at the time, with G.O. updates, guess I figured I didn't need them.

Didn't have any idea that the MTA did not issue them! As a timetable collector, I always thought the TDI tables were crap!

Dave

P.S. An interesting thing to note, if you hadn't noted it already, the MTA tables alternated their blue and white striped cover each issue. One issue, the blue was on the left. The next issue, the blue was on the right. Check it out if you hadn't noticed it.

Also, I have an MTA-issued Greenport table that is printed on the cover as "Greenpoint"!!! There's a collector's item!! And you guys made fun of "sugnal"!! DK

THANKS DAVE! Yes-I noticed the color variation. Can you give exact dates and form letters if you can in May/June of '72? The TDI TTs were cute to a kid like I was during these times but compared to the larger forms they pale in comparison. MACTRAXX

DAVE-I re-checked the NRHS's TT dated May 25,1970-We HAVE that error TT! It says GREENPOINT on top but below it it says GREENPORT correctly! Neat stuff! This one almost got by me! MACTRAXX

I'll check them again this evening when I get home and provide you the forms in question.

Dave

P.S. I have a couple of OLD TDIs in my archive for one reason only: I love to see the ads of banks and other businesses that advertised on them and no longer exist, such as Franklin National Bank, Security National Bank, etc., etc. DK

Mactraxx:

I've gone thru my archive and have come up with the following. Be aware that back then I was not a serious timetable collector. I saved whatever I got my hands on and that was that. If I'm missing any specific forms, it's not necessarily because they weren't printed, only because I probably didn't go out of my way to get them.

Also, back then, unless you had access to a major terminal, such as Jamaica or Penn Station, you had to acquire your branch TTs from your local ticket clerk and many times, they were not friendly enough to bother to assist you in giving you one of each branch. Some were downright bitchy about it, like it was costing them money to get off their fat a$$es to give you branch timetables!

Totally astonishing! What an attitude!

Anyhow, here's what I've got:

Last Dashing Dan's:
Pink/Magenta printing:
5/22/66, Forms A, C, D
10/3/66, Form F
9/12/66, Form B

Green printing:
5/22/67, Forms A, C, D
1/21/68, Form A

MTA (ONLY last years of blue/white format. I have all of 1968 thru 1970 inclusive):
9/27/71, Forms A, C, F, L
10/5/71, Forms A, C, D, F, L

5/25/72, Forms B, D
6/26/72, Forms B, D and addendum page to form A, but no A in my archive

Dave

I recall in the 90's a few different letter disignations on schedules...

C = Change trains (At Babylon for Speonk, At Ronkonkoma for Southhold...)
J = Change at Jamaica for DIRECT CONNECTION train
T = Change at Jamaica for NON DIRECT CONNECTION Train

I know less letters is used to be less confusing but the old J's and T's would be of help. If for example I'm traveling Kew Gardens to Rosedale, changing in Jamaica, it would help to know if my connection is a direct (across platform) or non direct and requires a wait time at Jamaica. it would help people be a little less dependant on announcements.