LIRR Branch timetables: Some ideas to improve them..

I think the present timetables on both the LIRR and Metro-North are
adequate even if they are not as interesting and I agree that they are not
as interesting to the collector or fan.
The average rider who is taking a one time trip today has access to a
computer to check on a train or better yet can call a toll free or a local
number 24/7 and get all the info that they need. I am not saying that
this is great but this is the present day situation and timetables are quite
costly to print and distribute.
I think it would be proper if the LIRR ticket agents had Metro-North
timetables and the Metro-North agents had LIRR timetables. Probably
adding NJT would help too.
I believe there are some really in the Long Island and greater New York
City metro area who could get together and put out a "Railfan Timetable"
such as been done in other parts of the country. You see them mentioned
or advertised in the various magazines from time to time and something
like this could detail various aspects of the operations of LIRR, MN, NJT as
well as the other railroads in the area and be interesting reading as well
as a big assist to explorers and photographers. Needed for a publication
of this nature are up to date timetables, employees who are involved in
the operations of the various railroads and NO GUESSES, only facts.
A publication of this nature would have to be dated and have a disclaimer
that it is correct as of a certain date but that all information is subject to
change or correction.
Many years ago when I grew up in the Naugatuck Valley in Connecticut, I
can well remember the ticket offices in both Waterbury and Torrington
having huge timetable racks in them with timetables from all over the
country in them and available. Some hotels also had timetable racks in
them too but remember that this was when the railroads CARED about
their passenger trains.
Noel Weaver

Many years ago when I grew up in the Naugatuck Valley in Connecticut, I
can well remember the ticket offices in both Waterbury and Torrington
having huge timetable racks in them with timetables from all over the
country in them and available. Some hotels also had timetable racks in
them too but remember that this was when the railroads CARED about
their passenger trains.
Noel Weaver

Again. . . . .that was a prime example of the inter-line era of railroading. Most depots, even on the LIRR, had LARGE timetable racks, holding timetables from many different roads. When Jim Osborne, the old agent/operator at Southampton worked that station, and the inter-line era came to an end, he acquired the large, oak timetable racks from the Southampton depot and put them to use in his Travel Agency, using them to hold travel and airline brochures!

Imagine what a collectors dream that would be, to step into such an equipped depot today!

Dave

Noel Weaver wrote:I think the present timetables on both the LIRR and Metro-North are
adequate even if they are not as interesting and I agree that they are not
as interesting to the collector or fan.
The average rider who is taking a one time trip today has access to a
computer to check on a train or better yet can call a toll free or a local
number 24/7 and get all the info that they need. I am not saying that
this is great but this is the present day situation and timetables are quite
costly to print and distribute.
I think it would be proper if the LIRR ticket agents had Metro-North
timetables and the Metro-North agents had LIRR timetables. Probably
adding NJT would help too.
I believe there are some really in the Long Island and greater New York
City metro area who could get together and put out a "Railfan Timetable"
such as been done in other parts of the country. You see them mentioned
or advertised in the various magazines from time to time and something
like this could detail various aspects of the operations of LIRR, MN, NJT as
well as the other railroads in the area and be interesting reading as well
as a big assist to explorers and photographers. Needed for a publication
of this nature are up to date timetables, employees who are involved in
the operations of the various railroads and NO GUESSES, only facts.
A publication of this nature would have to be dated and have a disclaimer
that it is correct as of a certain date but that all information is subject to
change or correction.
Many years ago when I grew up in the Naugatuck Valley in Connecticut, I
can well remember the ticket offices in both Waterbury and Torrington
having huge timetable racks in them with timetables from all over the
country in them and available. Some hotels also had timetable racks in
them too but remember that this was when the railroads CARED about
their passenger trains.
Noel Weaver

I can agree only so far, Noel. Yes today's LINE tables are adequate for 90% of the commuters who use a line and who will ride from home to the end point or intermdiate stops. But where the railroads and authorities are shortchanging themselves is not showing how to ride interline. How to make a change at Valley Stream or Hicksville or Woodside or Mineola to get to another part of the Island rather than just to Brooklyn or NYP. Even show how to use a bus from one line to another. This would be heads up marketing of a transportation system rather than just getting people to ride a train or a bus. I ride trains for fun, yes. And so I put several trips "together" for fun every year. I use the internet planners of the railroads, but more often than not I find by reading several timetables I can put together a continuous trip which make more sense time and distance wise than the computer program! But my main point is that the railroads LIRR, NJT, MetroNorth, SEPTA as well as the auxiliary bus lines, are not marketed as whole entitiies but as single services within the entire package available. Like only ordering a hamburger at McDonalds when the menue also has fries and Coke.

henry6

You make a valid point about interline traveling and bus connections between lines. This seems like marketing would need to get creative in developing a Public TT (PTT) which shows these connections and transfer points. Currently if you travel from Babylon to say Laurelton. Odds are you will be going into Jamaica as there may not be a close running connection at Lynbrook or the connection is ahead of you not leaving time for you to run down and around. With the schedules improved and transfer stops pointed out in the PTT the riding public will be able to better plan their trips around that. BTW how many Babylon’s stop at Lynbrook? And out of them how many have either a direct connection to either Long Beach or points West on the Atlantic branch between Jamaica and Valley?
Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying the service is not their but saying to make it more visible in the PTT an “L” change at Lynbrook? As for the Bus service allow a cross honor ticket purchases with out limiting the Metro card option to allow a high amount. The LIRR TVM at Valley
Only allows $20 metro cards when buying LIRR tickets, what if you can’t afford that obscene amount? Or just want to buy for 3 rides? You don’t need the $20 card?
There are a lot of improvements that can be made with out building any thing new and working with in the lines of what is available.

Long Island 7285 wrote:The LIRR TVM at Valley
Only allows $20 metro cards when buying LIRR tickets, what if you can’t afford that obscene amount? Or just want to buy for 3 rides? You don’t need the $20 card?

All the TVMs only have $20 Metro Cards. The thing is, it seems that being force to buy $20 cards only bothers us LI people. Now that I'm upstate (well, technically the folks up here consider themselves 'central NY' lol) most of the year, I have a different perspective. When my friends up here head down to LI and/or the city, they love the idea of being able to buy a card with a large amount of money that does not expire for a long time. I, however, still hate the idea of buying a $20 card and then carrying it around for months at a time.

In the late 50's/early 60's, I used to ride the LIRR a lot as a "railfan" (although that term wasn't really in vogue then). I found my system timetable (Form 1) invaluable for such purposes, and I agree that it was hard to come by. I think I wrote a letter to Jamaica Station in order to get one.

I would plan trips from Jamaica, like out on the Hempstead branch and back via the West Hempstead branch (a short walk between stations), or out to Babylon via the Main Line/Central Branch on a Speonk train, and back via the Montauk.

Also, lots of trips to Hicksville and back, but always wanted to know if I was on a PJ, Main Line, or Central branch train.

All of this would have been impossible without the Form 1.

As for the $20 card. what if I or any one in general, want to take a trip useing public transportation and a fare between point A- point B on LIRR RT is $10.50 and they need a $5.00 metro card and only have one $20.00 bill to for disposal on transportation, the rest of the money the money is for the reason the trip was made. Is there a reason to buy a $20.00 metro card then be short $20.00 in your pocket in becaus the inconsidderate peice of Technology? their are a lot of young adults whom commute to games, bars/clubs, shopping, go fanning, or just have a good time. Why should any of them(us) be ripped off $20.00? thats 100% in the wrong. why should we have to buy the less value card in the subway and not on any TVM? the $20.00 metro card is great but there needs to be more options if you cannot aford that big of a hit.

Ocala Mike wrote:In the late 50's/early 60's, I used to ride the LIRR a lot as a "railfan" (although that term wasn't really in vogue then). I found my system timetable (Form 1) invaluable for such purposes, and I agree that it was hard to come by. I think I wrote a letter to Jamaica Station in order to get one.

I would plan trips from Jamaica, like out on the Hempstead branch and back via the West Hempstead branch (a short walk between stations), or out to Babylon via the Main Line/Central Branch on a Speonk train, and back via the Montauk.

Also, lots of trips to Hicksville and back, but always wanted to know if I was on a PJ, Main Line, or Central branch train.

All of this would have been impossible without the Form 1.

But is possible without Form 1s. I do it all the time. But I have several tables spread before me or am going back and forth on the internet pages. The same thing with MN and NJT. NJT, they all have a "program" for you to use "point to point" and "trip planner" which I might use but then scrap their suggestion because I'll find a light rail connection or bus connection or connection at non transfer designated station which saves time or gives a better railfan bent. However, if these agencies would market cross lines and bus services to show how to get around. They only say that it is possible. They probably don't know how themselves. The real crux of the argument is that with time it will become more critical that there is more universal use of mass transit.

the schedules are hard to use for an outsider, who may not understand the system despite how the schedule explains it.

Dave: I am at NRHS National doing research. I take care of the timetable collection there and I delved in and we have here: FORM LI-1 - 16 issues beginning with 10/16/21 which is not in that great shape. These include 2 from the 20s;2 from the 30s;9/16/45 is our only 40s issue;7 50s issues and one each from 1961 to 64. Other forms we have here are: Form A: NY-HEM,OB,PJ,KO(Ronkonkoma) 5/19 and 9/16/63;9/12/66. Form C: NY/Bklyn-WH-LB-BABYLON/PATCHOGUE dated 9/14/59;Form D: NY/Bklyn-Montauk dated 6/3/62;9/13/65 and 5/10/68. Form E: NY/Bklyn-Far Rockaway dated 9/17/62; Form F: NY-Port Washington dated 9/25/67. We have the following TTs also: Form LI-2 NY-Bklyn-Jamaica dated 5/14/63; A card TT showing parlor car service for the 1951 Summer season and last but certainly not least Form LI-22 The WADING RIVER Branch dated 9/19/37. This one is a small 4-page folder with also a revision date of 3/16/38. Was this a last issue before this branch was abandoned? Thanks for the research help! MACTRAXX

MACTRAXX:

The last revenue train to Wading River was on October 9, 1938.

My LI-1 from September, 1938 was the last LI-1 showing the Wading River extension service.

I haven't seen any LI-22 forms so I can't tell you as fact, however . . . . if the LIRR issued an LI-1 in September, 1938 showing Wading River service, knowing full well that October was the end date, it would make sense for them to issue an LI-22 in September, 1938 as well.

3/38 would show the spring/summer trains. They would have had to print something showing the Fall/Winter schedule. The times were already there in the LI-1.

As a point of historical trivia, while there were no more revenue trains, the branch wasn't "officially" abandoned for another 5 1/2 months, until 3/29/39 by general order. They probably used this time period to dismantle signals and remove LIRR property, structures, etc. by rail, then tore the tracks up behind them on their final trip west.

Dave