Internet Access on Amtrak Trains

YouTube video on how UTA provides WiFi on Frontrunner trains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fp2k9DYKLk

It took over 20 communication towers along an approximately 50 mile corridor, imagine how many towers it will take for coverage along a 500 mile Amtrak corridor from Boston to Washington?

electricron wrote:YouTube video on how UTA provides WiFi on Frontrunner trains.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fp2k9DYKLk

It took over 20 communication towers along an approximately 50 mile corridor, imagine how many towers it will take for coverage along a 500 mile Amtrak corridor from Boston to Washington?

Maybe less than you think. Remember, there are probably thousands of cell towers along the NEC. The MBTA has WiFi using standard cell towers and it does just fine.

Electricron, you bring up a good point, but along the NEC , I dont think it will be a problem considering that along the route we have excellent cell phone 3 g service with these cell towers on everything from abandoned warehouses to water towers.

Hello fellow Amtrak/rail fans..
Seems like we have been over this before.. oh yes we have briefly. Im not apposed to Amtrak having Internet access aboard all there trains as I've stated before its part of our everyday life whether you like it or not. there was even an article in I believe it was USA Today a few months back, that suggested in our economy with everyday convenience being shaved to keep our households in budget with our hard economic times what would we get rid of and what would we keep? Overwhelmingly Broadband was the #1 top KEEPER, no ones giving up there broadband. I myself am a computer tech with , A+, Net+, MCSA, MCSE and studying for CCCIE. I wish Amtrak had wireless access on all there routes the problem is how they implement it in certain regions. Implementation cost fact is the key. The NEC is long over due for WI-FI onboard there trains, net access should be available at your seat in the NEC. The system could have been implemented years ago using cellular towers for data coverage as the tower coverage overlaps most of the NEC so there would be no loss in connection. The problem I saw then and now was the cost, Amtrak just didn't and possibly still does not have the capitol for it. The cheep bus companies in the NEC have figured this out and started implementing it on there routes, even greyhound has jumped on the band wagon. If there was no market for it as some people are saying Bus companies would not be adding it into there current game plan ( take note).

Yes I see a lot of people quoting there's "unlimited " data packages form ATT, VERIZON, etc. but have any of you read there fine print? there not actually unlimited! there caped at 3-5GB per month or less. Not bad at all if all you do is use your phone ALONE for data/ web access, but if your tethering you can easily go over that limit in a week. I myself have a Blackberry and I use it alone for data up and downloads/txt on blackberry messenger/web via mini opera/messaging via IMs/ Pandora radio , and blackberry enterprise. I don't tether and monthly I range in between the 2-3GB in data usage(YES my phone does stay on 24/7). If I was tethering I'd be way over there 3-5GB cap. Also so would anyone else who would use it to tether to a laptop often and watch youtube videos, worldtv, netfilix, or any TV service, flicker a lot, etc.. Not to mention most major USA cellular providers have it in there TOS now that they do NOT allow tethering on data plans whatsoever ( even though people do it anyway). Its kind of a catch 22 now that there offering 3G and soon to be 4G connectivity. Cellular providers also know when your tethering, Ive had colleges get letters from there wireless carriers stating there in Violation of there TOS and may be removed from there so called unlimited data plans and they now have to pay per KB / MB, or option #2 reduce there usage to keep there data plans. Want to know more about wireless, internet, WI-FI, cellular technologies. etc. visit broadbandreports.com. this is where to find the info your talking about in this post, however is not available on a railroad forum ( for good reason).

If Amtrak wants to stay ahead of the curve they need to at least catch up with VIA Rail, that's right for all the nay-Sayers here VIA has had at your seat WI-FI Internet service on there Corridor trains since around 2005. It is not as overly expensive as most people would believe as technology gets older it becomes cheaper. Only one satellite or cell tower receiver/transmitter would be need per train ( as VIA rail has only equipped the VIA 1 cars with the satellite equipment all other coaches have repeater transmitters to extend internet access to each car). VIA's system has enough bandwidth to supply 100s of simultaneous internet connections to all passengers at 90+ mph with MIMO technology. Even though it was pay service on VIA at first they have recovered enough compensation for the service from paying customers that the service on some trains is now provided free. Not bad for a 4-5 year turn around. Although in my opinion they used Satellite access instead of cellular tower access ( which Highly raised there initial start up cost). Cellular tower access would have worked fine in southern Ontario as ether GSM or CDMA technology ( for data) coverage is overlapped to the point that even in remote areas there's good coverage, Similar to the NEC. I would suggest to Amtrak begin implementation of WI-FI access onboard all NEC trains, with WI-FI service to be available at every seat similar to VIA Rail ( by use of repeaters) to compete with the current US market. This system on Amtrak should use the cellular towers in the NEC for connectivity to cut down on initial cost and help with tunnel reception as femtocell technology can be used there to deliver data instead of cellular voice service, and repeaters can be added to NEC passenger cars and tunnels to allow WI-FI access aboard each train car with constant at your seat service. This would be ideal for NE regional and Acela services. LD trains out side the NE corridor, and other corridor trains (IE: Midwest) I would have them equipped with satellite dome receivers for internet access and to keep cost under control only add it into the cafe cars, dinning cars, and/or Lounge cars at first. The coaches and sleepers can do without for the time being to cut cost and see how well the system is accepted on LD trains. If you want net access walk to one of the cars with WI-FI turn on your laptop, smartphone, or PDA take a seat and use it there to your hearts content as all seats in those cars would be equipped with plugs for your convenience. Im sure it wouldn't cause a overload of passengers in one train car as not everyone will be using it at the same time. I figure 1 in 20 passengers on LD train will be using it at any given time. Most cruise ships I've been on are equipped similarly the same way, there's one room on-board the ship that you can go to sit down in front of one of many computers and do what ever you need to online, and your connected via satellite.

The 3G maps of the USA that are all over the cellular commercials are not accurate as we all know, note: they always have a disclaimer in fine print.. "due to terrain, weather, and your device your coverage will vary." Lets face it, in the USA there will always be areas that will have no data or cellular coverage, period. Amtrak LD trains transverse through a lot of them. Also Dutch WI-FI is NOT dead and is going nowhere but UP, currently there on the verge of perfecting WI-MAX for extended range of service. In closing even though I have whats called an "unlimited" data plan on my blackberry that does not mean I can use it all the time to my hearts content. just food for thought. Its also nice to have another option when available. MY Blackberry is a Quadband GSM phone with data conductivities via: EDGE, 3G, WI-FI, and BLUETOOTH BUILT IN. I flick off the EDGE/3G and flick on the free WI-FI access whenever I can.

Buddah

PS: I took this pic using my Blackberry of my travel laptop, summer of 09' ( yes I own 2 15" laptops for those wondering). While on VIA Rail using there Satellite internet access by way of WI-FI for FREE 4 cars back from the actual satellite dome on the VIA 1 car, and yes pages loaded quicker than what I received on my blackberry.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8453967@N08/3971772375/

BoltBus.

If they are doing it amtrak HAS to or they WILL lose customers. Not to mention airlines are rolling out various high speed internet services. That being said, a stop-gap is present in the form of wireless hotspots along the NEC in new jersey, jointly served by cablevision & comcast for said providers' customers. I am not an internet customer with either company, so i'm stuck using battery drain 3G if i need to do something important on my iPhone. Maybe a joint venture of providers, state, federal, and corporate wireline service tax funding could put it not only on amtrak, but on NJ transit, LIRR, MNRR, SEPTA, MBTA, VRE, MARC, Metra, MetroLink............

- A

The ultimate question is , who should provide Internet access ?? Amtrak, Or the providers??
Amtrak is not in business to provide free or paid access, If it were profitable , Im sure the providers would jump in, but they don't.
So is Amtrak obligated to enter another money losing venture ???

DutchRailnut: This question has ultimately been answered before, and you continue to argue a dead issue.

DutchRailnut wrote:The ultimate question is , who should provide Internet access ?? Amtrak, Or the providers??

I don't even understand your question here. If Amtrak provides internet access to its passengers, then obviously it needs that service provided to them by an internet provider... that's how internet service here works!

The MBTA already provides such service on its entire Commuter Rail system. They use AT&T's broadband network, and if you see one of those trains, boy you'd know it!

Every car equipped with the 3G broadband device has a banner at each end of the car advertising the service, and some are fully wrapped. There are cars that have their interiors decked with stickers showing off the service.

I'm sure the T isn't shelling out too much money with all that advertising, Amtrak could do run a similar campaign. (I'd hate to see Amtrak's cars defaced the way the MBTA's are, however they could tie the provider in with their ad campaigns)

So is Amtrak obligated to enter another money losing venture ???

Now you're just making stuff up. There is nothing to even insinuate that providing such a service which promote and/or maintain ridership is a money losing venture. Providing internet would come with a cost, it's called the cost of doing business!

Amtrak runs full trains , so where is your argument about attracting passengers ??

My question that you fail to comprehend is who should pay for equiping these trains ?? Amtrak or the providers ??
It is a system that will always loose money .

I'm not going to get involved a flame war over it. Once again this has been answered. Deals may be worked out with the provider like the one the MBTA has made with AT&T. Also, funding can be allocated for these things. Amtrak's financial troubles are not due to their revenues. Remember, they are federally funded!

DutchRailnut wrote:Amtrak runs full trains , so where is your argument about attracting passengers ??

Competition is often about comfort and convenience.

In MBTA's case, yes they already provide the option of resting on the way to work/home rather than being stuck on the highway in all kinds of traffic and weather, but add the option of working on the go and you bring in a whole new set of commuters who otherwise don't care about the whole rest thing. If you have emails to type after work, would you rather do them at home or would you rather do them BEFORE you get home?

Now in Amtrak's case it's a competition between them, driving, AND flying. Now depending on how far the passenger wishes to travel, he or she may wish to be able to spend their travel time watching Youtube, Facebooking/Tweeting, or IMing as opposed to being stuck in a metal tube with absolutely nothing to do.

Again since free service is never free, are you willing to let ticket prices of everyone get higher so just a few can use internet ??

DutchRailnut wrote:Again since free service is never free, are you willing to let ticket prices of everyone get higher so just a few can use internet ??

"A few"? When Amtrak adds free Wi-Fi to the Acelas and then to the Regionals later this year, a lot more than a few riders will be using it. It will be a popular marketing and sales pitch for Amtrak to compete against driving, buses, and airplanes. It is not hard to see the commercial: Why sit in traffic unable to surf the net and twitter behind the wheel of your car when you can be surfing from the comfort of a train with a cup of coffee? I would expect Amtrak will offset the cost of the service with ads and try to drum up more bookings with links to their website & reservation system on the login page.

Looking at the Amtrak FY2010 budget on their website, the budget for adding WiFi to the Acela for the year is only $0.3 million. The budget probably has been increased since the FY10 budget was published to add Wi-Fi to the Regionals this year. In the 5 year financial plan, Amtrak has budgeted an additional $26.2 million to add WiFi to their trains from FY11-FY14. If the Acelas and Regionals have Wi-Fi added this year, those budgets must mean they plan to add Wi-Fi to the rest of their corridor trains and probably some, if not most, of the LDs over the next 4 years. The budget numbers for adding Wi-Fi service are pretty small potatoes in the total budget numbers.

DutchRailnut wrote:Again since free service is never free, are you willing to let ticket prices of everyone get higher so just a few can use internet ??

Make it available in business class and raise the business class prices accordingly.

DutchRailnut wrote:Again since free service is never free, are you willing to let ticket prices of everyone get higher so just a few can use internet ??

Amtrak charges plenty, certainly enough that they should be offering wifi. the "full train" argument is somewhat dubious as well. the trains are well short of their historic length and I've been on plenty of empty trains.

Schedule update: Boardman says wireless internet access to be in Acelas beginning in March.
http://www.delawareonline.com/article/2 ... rovements+