Internet Access on Amtrak Trains

unlimited internet via a G3 account sets you back $30 a month, on AT&T.

DutchRailnut wrote:unlimited internet via a G3 account sets you back $30 a month, on AT&T.

I know on verizon I can tether on by blackberry for $30 a month, but their is no long term commitment (on the tethering add-on) so If I'm going to be taking a long train ride on a particular day I will turn the tethering on (essentially $1/day), which is a pretty good deal if you are already paying for a blackberry.

Batman2 wrote:

DutchRailnut wrote:If Amtrak were to wire and connect rail cars, the service would be obsolete before it were to be activated.
Just like railcall and its phones being over run by affordable cell phones.
G3 and G4 cell phone Internet access is getting more affordable and any Internet junkies, and those that really need access to Internet, will use those services before they would pay Amtrak.

The big weakness of G3 and G4 is that you can rack up a huge phone bill with all those data minutes. Generally, the most internet stuff I'd do on my phone is check my e-mail unless I'm in a wi-fi network anyways. I think that goes for a lot of people. The big advantage is that wi-fi can allow more productivity (or not ) since you only pay a base fee and then have unlimited usage ability.

You only rack up those huge bills if you don't bother with a data plan. I pay for "unlimited data" and pay a fixed monthly fee.

I have a Sprint Mobile Broadband Card with unlimited minutes. A really good deal...and a really good service!

I'd stay away from anything AT&T. Their customer service is horrendous!

Delivering such will not be easy. We could use satellite feed, except oops, the train moves and even goes into tunnels. Plus the latency sucks rocks. At least the airlines get a clear look overhead for their schemes.

We could try 3G but consistent coverage is anything but available.

We could wait until Sprint ooops Clear delivers on XOHM oops whatever. Take a deep breath but don't hold it.

I know! We could put BPL on the cat power! [For those not in the know, BPL ranks up there with bubble memory and cold fusion as techo-disasters. It was pushed by the Bush FCC as proof there was "competition" in the market.]

How about a BIG reel of fiber, laid out as you head south and spooled up again northbound?

farecard wrote:Delivering such will not be easy. We could use satellite feed, except oops, the train moves and even goes into tunnels. Plus the latency sucks rocks. At least the airlines get a clear look overhead for their schemes.

We could try 3G but consistent coverage is anything but available.

We could wait until Sprint ooops Clear delivers on XOHM oops whatever. Take a deep breath but don't hold it.

I know! We could put BPL on the cat power! [For those not in the know, BPL ranks up there with bubble memory and cold fusion as techo-disasters. It was pushed by the Bush FCC as proof there was "competition" in the market.]

How about a BIG reel of fiber, laid out as you head south and spooled up again northbound?

Remember that kinder gentler time when you just got off the train at your stop and went to those rows of intruments in the train station known
as pay telephones?

"Please deposit 65 cents for the next three minutes....."

hi55us wrote:

DutchRailnut wrote:unlimited internet via a G3 account sets you back $30 a month, on AT&T.

I know on verizon I can tether on by blackberry for $30 a month, but their is no long term commitment (on the tethering add-on) so If I'm going to be taking a long train ride on a particular day I will turn the tethering on (essentially $1/day), which is a pretty good deal if you are already paying for a blackberry.

This seems more of a workable option to me. Maybe I should switch from AT&T?

So what does this all mean in the context of Amtrak providing wireless in the NEC? Should they still do it? or is it a waste of time and money in the long term?

Payphones are history
Railfone is history
Wifi will be history before it can be fully implemented.
Computer technology moves way faster than the federal money allocating machine.

DutchRailnut wrote:Payphones are history
Railfone is history
Wifi will be history before it can be fully implemented.
Computer technology moves way faster than the federal money allocating machine.

Yes, Amtrak is usually way behind in technology. But, if you had limited finances, you too would be far behind on technology too. Look at it from Amtrak's management perspective, why spend millions of dollars for a free service? If there were a way to make those millions of dollars turn a profit, they probably would have spent the money much sooner. But there wasn't, so they didn't.

Amtrak also hasn't installed many power receptacles on their trains either. So, what good would wifi access be without power for your electronic devices? To do the wifi properly, they would have to provide power receptacles too, increasing the costs significantly.

Payphones and Railphones paid much of their costs with fees. I don't think wifi would have.

electricron wrote:
Yes, Amtrak is usually way behind in technology. .......... Amtrak also hasn't installed many power receptacles on their trains either. So, what good would wifi access be without power for your electronic devices? To do the wifi properly, they would have to provide power receptacles too, increasing the costs significantly.

..............

How true is this, still? All the Amfleets I walked through last week had power sockets at each seat [1 per passenger]. I do know that such availability was more hit and miss on the LD coaches, but Amtrak employees I spoke with last summer intimated that by Summer 2010 most if not all Superliner coaches would be similarly equipped. Since I don't realistically see Amtrak offering wifi outside the corrider any time soon anyway, it seems they would be all set.

CNJ wrote:Remember that kinder gentler time when you just got off the train at your stop and went to those rows of intruments in the train station known
as pay telephones?

Remember that time when you rode a train instead of an airplane so that you could relax, look out the window, enjoy the scenery, and have some nice quiet time before you arrived at your destination?



I ride the train to get AWAY from my computer, and the internet access. If I could, I'd leave the cell phone at home, but the alternative is paying through the roof at pay phones and hotels when my cell phone is already paid for.

DutchRailnut wrote:unlimited internet via a G3 account sets you back $30 a month, on AT&T.

Wireless web on Verizon is $5 a month for email access and limited web, plus minutes used. That works for me. I had G3 access across AZ and NM on the SW Chief. My laptop stayed packed and I didn't miss it.

DutchRailnut wrote:Payphones are history.....Railfone is history....Wifi will be history before it can be fully implemented.... Computer technology moves way faster than the federal money allocating machine.

Mr. Railnut, there was one these presently prolific pieces regarding "the Decade ahead" aired on WBBM 780 this morning during the 5AM hour (when you get to be my age, you all will find that it is the "norm' to be "bright eyed and bushy tailed" at that hour, but of course forget about Letterman and even Leno at his new time). The segment suggested that the desktop computer will become largely confined to the office; the home computer will be replaced with the portable laptop - and even that is in jeopardy as the so-called 'smart phone' becomes the primary personal communication/media device.

Regarding pay phones, there used to be two of such at my local METRA train station; now there are none. Likely to me the most vivid example of pay phone's decline and fall was how on a recent trip into town for the Symphony, I noted the rank of payphones on the South side (Amtrak & BNSF) of CUS completely unused. However sitting in front of them on the floor were several youngsters - all talking/texting/playing on their electronic devices!!!

DutchRailnut wrote:Payphones are history
Railfone is history
Wifi will be history before it can be fully implemented.
Computer technology moves way faster than the federal money allocating machine.

Reading through this thread I notice you seem to have a strong opposition to the idea of Amtrak implementing internet access. I don't really understand why. Wi-fi has very recently been installed broadly on train and bus services. I agree Amtrak is a little behind, but with 3G coverage becoming quite vast (and with a new 4G system on the way), I don't understand understand the complexity of installing such systems on trains. I also don't agree with Wi-fi becoming a thing of the past so quickly. I'm sure that eventually wireless internet coverage will start becoming as available an FM Radio signal, but that's not even on the radar screen at this point.

Acela's success (as well as the Regional service), is focused on transporting business people. I'm sure the service is also heavily utilized by college students and the common traveler, but it is geared towards the business person. To provide such a service and without providing access to email, networking, and communications... in this day in age, doesn't make much sense.

Another point, Amtrak isn't going to walk into a Verizon Wireless or AT&T store and buy a connection like you or I would. They will work together to set up a big contract, possibly some PR, and wide coverage. They may even go as far as to set up some additional towers to improve service on Amtrak's heaviest corridors if the price is right (like Verizon did in the MBTA's downtown subway tunnels).

Another point, Amtrak isn't going to walk into a Verizon Wireless or AT&T store and buy a connection like you or I would. They will work together to set up a big contract, possibly some PR, and wide coverage. They may even go as far as to set up some additional towers to improve service on Amtrak's heaviest corridors if the price is right (like Verizon did in the MBTA's downtown subway tunnels).

I have no objection. A decade ago, I actually briefly explored the idea with a successful Internet entrepreneur. But we decided it was too hard to accomplish well, at that time.

You may now be able to get enough 3G coverage to make it work. You'd err.. tunnel all the traffic from the train (or car) host to your fixed site, and on from there. That way, you could use a protocol scheme tolerant of the inevitable dropouts without losing state. If people use actual IMAP/SMTP with caching; it's not impossible. Webmail may be more of a PITA. But ssh to a host, well....

BTW, within tunnels, a special leaky coax cable "Radiax" made by Andrews is generally used. A single straight tunnel might have antennas at each end, but add a single bend and it gets messy fast.