Intermodal to Saint John

121 was into Greenville Jct. at 09:57 with 8580/3108/5020/2209/2261, 52 mixed freight, 27 wells/54 containers, 8209 (DPU), 37 wells/75 containers, 11 empty autoracks, 11 mixed freight, 55 GREX slot cars.

[Edited at 21:14]

120 was into Greenville Jct. at 14:06 with 8833/7009, 29 mixed freight (one loaded autorack), 61 wells/78 containers.

121 was into Greenville Jct. at 07:26 with 8833/7009, 12 wells/24 containers, 27 mixed freight.

[Edited at 15:04]

120 was into Greenville Jct. at 14:14 with 8727/7013, 61 mixed freight (8 loaded autoracks), 9753 (DPU), 90 wells/144 containers, 3 empty wells.

121 was into Greenville Jct. at 07:19 with 7013/8727, 6 mixed freight, 47 wells/97 containers.

[Edited at 13:43]

120 was into Greenville Jct. at 13:26 with 8119/8883, 41 mixed freight (one autorack), 38 wells/56 containers, 50 empty wells.

121 was into Greenville Jct. at 07:36 with 8883/8119, 39 mixed freight (12 empty autoracks). No intermodal.

[Edited at 17:58]

120 was into Greenville Jct. at 13:52 with 8830/7009, 52 mixed freight, KCSM 4545 (DPU), 94 wells/230 containers.

When do you guys think CSX will begin the intermodal trains?
Will saint john be an interchange point between CN, CPKC, CSX ?
What destinations will these intermodals go to Alanta,New jersey,Chciago,Mexico,Etc?

121 was into Greenville Jct. at 09:05 with 9753/KCSM 4545, 46 mixed freight, 18 wells/36 containers, 7009 (DPU), 50 wells/100 containers, 11 empty autoracks.

TrainTrackToby wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:16 pm When do you guys think CSX will begin the intermodal trains?
Will saint john be an interchange point between CN, CPKC, CSX ?
What destinations will these intermodals go to Alanta,New jersey,Chciago,Mexico,Etc?

I wouldn't bet on them anytime soon, CSXT barely has the capacity to handle more than 40 cars at the reopened Mattawamkeag interchange at this point. Going to need better than 25mph track to handle serious IM traffic, and they have clearance restrictions on stacks anyway.

CPKC and CSXT don't go east of Maine, that is all Irving territory; NBR is the only outfit interchanging with CN. The containers would go wherever the customer needs them...

But the official port Saint John website states “Saint John is the only Atlantic Canadian port with rail optionality, connecting to three Class I railways — CN, CPKC and CSX . For rates within North America, rail providers may be contacted. For intermodal shipments, the container shipping line coordinates directly with the rail providers for an all-inclusive rate” Doesn’t that mean all three railroads run there and wasn’t the reason csx bought pan am was to gain access to Saint John?

Mr. NHV, Mr. Toby does have a point. I'd like to think that Chessie didn't acquire some broken down road with, at least over the MEC, simply to continue Timmy's broken down 1:1 Lionel set.

She had to know there were clearance restrictions and maybe FRA Class 2 at best track. I trust she was prepared to do without some Fancy Feast, live on dollar store cat food for a while, so she could have even more Fancy Feast.

With viable rail service into the States, I'd like to think that more vessels will call at Saint John, so that there would be no diversion of traffic away from CPKC (CN route is so circuitous that I wouldn't think of them as a competitor).

TrainTrackToby wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:16 pm When do you guys think CSX will begin the intermodal trains?
Will saint john be an interchange point between CN, CPKC, CSX ?
What destinations will these intermodals go to Alanta,New jersey,Chciago,Mexico,Etc?

CSX is years away from being able to effectively move intermodal. The CPKC-CSX interchange is NMJ, only seeing a few grain and sodium chlorite cars a week along with the occasional tar empties. Lately CSX has moved this traffic on Saturdays, which normally consists of less than 10 cars each way. As for the destinations who knows, originally it was mentioned that CSX was going to try and compete with CP to move intermodal to Chicago. Now the common idea is they are going to use SJ to ship stuff up and down the east coast, which doesn't make much sense when there are ports undercapacity else where on the east coast. At the end of the day, like NHV 669 said, they will move it wherever if they get paid.

TrainTrackToby wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 3:04 pm But the official port Saint John website states “Saint John is the only Atlantic Canadian port with rail optionality, connecting to three Class I railways — CN, CPKC and CSX . For rates within North America, rail providers may be contacted. For intermodal shipments, the container shipping line coordinates directly with the rail providers for an all-inclusive rate” Doesn’t that mean all three railroads run there and wasn’t the reason csx bought pan am was to gain access to Saint John?

CP and CSX have haulage rights. CN has a slightly different arrangement, I think they still own the track on the east side of Saint John while NBSR has the long term switching contract (considering most of the industries served are owned by JD Irving), in return I think they get the same haulage rights as CP/CSX.

120 was into Greenville Jct. at 20:55 with 8724/KCS 4687, 45 mixed freight (one autorack), 3 wells/5 containers.

Bravo to the guys out there in 5 degree conditions.

TrainTrackToby wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 3:04 pm But the official port Saint John website states “Saint John is the only Atlantic Canadian port with rail optionality, connecting to three Class I railways — CN, CPKC and CSX . For rates within North America, rail providers may be contacted. For intermodal shipments, the container shipping line coordinates directly with the rail providers for an all-inclusive rate” Doesn’t that mean all three railroads run there and wasn’t the reason csx bought pan am was to gain access to Saint John?

Nope, it means someone can ship something into that port, and gain access to multiple markets through those three class I roads via a single interchange with an NBR railroad.

CPF66 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 29, 2024 7:27 pm CSX is years away from being able to effectively move intermodal. ...As for the destinations who knows, originally it was mentioned that CSX was going to try and compete with CP to move intermodal to Chicago. Now the common idea is they are going to use SJ to ship stuff up and down the east coast, which doesn't make much sense when there are ports undercapacity elsewhere on the east coast. At the end of the day, like NHV 669 said, they will move it wherever if they get paid.

Mr. CPF, I'd like to think that Chessie (cats are considerably smarter, but hardly as loyal, as are dogs) did not give up any portion of her Fancy Feast and settle for the stuff at a dollar store, to continue handling the "captive" ten cars a week you note that are interchanged at Northern Maine Junction. She had to know that the MEC was a broken-down road largely comprised of FRA Class 1 (B&M? thank you very much, passenger train agencies, for the Class 4) and that there was high value traffic to be handled. She knew that Searsport was "owned" by CPKC, just as much Portland was largely hers (other guy GT; guess CN again nowadays). So where the high value traffic? Saint John plus maybe convincing the likes of Jeff and Wally World to place some warehouses (whoops, "Distribution Centers") in Maine with rail access.

Of course, we must not lose sight that times have changed for the maritime industry. After the COVID era surge, they are now laying up vessels, and the extra cost, owing to the Middle East hostilities, find that they must now route vessels around the Cape of Good Hope rather than through the Suez Canal hence adding some three weeks of sailing time Asia to NA East Coast. So it's no longer, again as you noted, "get me a berth, any berth" as it was during COVID; the maritime industry has their choice of ports again.

The challenge for Saint John, in addition to scheduling their sailings so that traversing the Bay of Fundy within, say, an hour of the ebb or flood tides, is that the port is so efficient, and their labor costs are somewhat less than in the States, so that they can command more callings. Reliable, competitive, rail routings are needed to enhance that environment.

Mr. Cowford, are you prepared to step up and comment?

Mr. Norman, those 10 car trips are the result of CSXT reopening the former MEC to Mattawamkeag, eliminating the need to pay CP to move their NBR bound traffic. Hence the smaller, infrequent trains.

There's no competition in Portland, as CN/GT service there has been gone what, 40 years? CN handed that line off over 30 years ago; SLR hasn't run south of Danville Junction in 7 or 8 years since cutting service to the now gone bean factory. There's no ship to rail traffic in Portland to fight over regardless...