increased fare and drastically reduced service

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longi ... -headlines

Joie Tyrrell
Staff Writer

July 29, 2004, 3:05 PM EDT

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority today proposed Long Island Rail Road fares by 5 percent and reducing off-peak service to help close its multimillion-dollar budget deficit.

In a meeting in Manhattan this morning, MTA Executive Director Katie Lapp released details of the 2005 financial plan as well as budget projections for 2005 to 2008. Among the options under consideration are fare hikes for the commuter rails, which include the LIRR and MetroNorth, and LIRR schedule changes that could mean combining a number of trains, according to a source familiar with the plan. The railroad also may cut back on train service during the non-rush hours.

The MTA also proposed reducing the cleaning of train cars and stations.

But in a sign of how dire the agency's finances may be, it's proposed far more draconian and unprecedent cuts for 2006. They include:

Ending service on the West Hempstead, Oyster Bay, Montauk and Greenport lines, ripping up the tracks and selling them for salvage.


Ending weekend service on the Oyster Bay, Far Rockaway, Port Jefferson and West Hempstead branches.


Closing ticket windows at 16 stations.


Combining 30 peak and off-peak trains.


Closing the train car washes.


Possibly a fare increase on top of that.

In addition, the abandoned proposal to combine the LIRR with Metro-North is back on the table.

The agency also has floated raising the costs of discounted multi-use MetroCards -- but not the $2 base fare -- to raise money. The MTA raised LIRR fares by an average of 25 percent last year and the subway fare to $2. The MTA also increased tolls by 25 cents to $1 on nine city-area bridges and tunnels. MTA officials are looking at raising those tolls again.

MTA officials declined to comment yesterday on the proposals but Lapp had directed LIRR officials earlier this year to look into cutting "internal inefficiencies and other matters" to close a gap of $540 million in 2005 that could grow to more than $1 billion in 2006.

"If I were Long Island Rail Road riders, I would be on guard," said Gene Russianoff, lead attorney for the Strap- hangers Campaign. The MTA's gaps are due to rising debt service on bonds to pay for increased borrowing, plus growing pension, benefit and employee health costs, Lapp has said.

Beverly Dolinsky, executive director of the LIRR Commuter's Council, said she expects MTA officials to detail different scenarios as they have done in former budget presentations.

"I think they will say, 'If you have to cut your budget by this much or this much or this much, what does that mean?'" she said. "This will give the public a chance to have input and let the powers that be see what it is."

The board will vote on a final 2005 budget in December.

MTA officials are also expected to unveil the 2005 to 2009 capital plan, which likely includes funding for East Side Access linking the LIRR to Grand Central and a third track on the LIRR's Main Line from Bellerose to Hicksville.

Commuters objected to the cuts.

"If you can't get where you need to go when you need to be there, there's no point in public transportation. I don't need to be there late, or not at all," said Kim Congdon, 24, of Westbury, who takes the train from Hicksville to Stony Brook, where she studies biology.

The combination of cuts in train service and cleaning with increased fares also is objectionable, Congdon said.

"That sounds ridiculous, especially if they're going to be charging you more and giving you less," she said.

Pssst, I already posted this a few hours ago.

Nimby your article was from newsday before they had the meeting this morning. This article had the details from the meeting that were not discussed in your article. I would have to be a real genius to post the same article that some else did. But thanks for pointing it out.

Rip up the Montauk branch and sell the track for salvage??

Why doesn't the LIRR pick up the used face plates, Pandrol clips and used rail they removed from the Main Line Rehab and other projects and sell them first?

LIRR has a lot of scrap lying around that they should pick up and cash in.

Hey! Why not just get a big electro-magnet (like you see at auto places to load cars into the crusher of death), a generator, put it on the end of a crane, and run it around the system and suck up all the loose metal that's just laying around? Have you guy's seen the price of steel right now!?!?!?

Hi,
All I have to say is
Only here Only here.
I am not making fun of the LIRR. You go down to see "Florida East Coast Railway" and there is no scrap laying around. A survivor in the sun from bad times in the 60's and early 70's from a nasty strike... The LIRR will pull through these bad times...
Chris

Well, considering the LIRR abandoned the Rockaway branch intact over 50 years ago and never went back for scrap, I wouldn't expect them to pick up anything along the ROW. Have you ever notice how much half buried rail is laying around? I wouldn't be surprised if it's a few million dollars worth.

Abandoning the Main line east of Ronkonkoma could be the best thing to happen for railfans on LI since the 2 G-5's were saved. Just think of the possibilities! 50 plus miles for steam or deisel excursions, dinner trains, Santa Claus Specials etc. The uses are endless. That is of course assuming the LIRR offers the line to a preservation group before pulling up the tracks. I can just see it now, we wake up one morning and all of RMLI's equipment is left sitting on the ground and the nearest rail now ends 25 miles west!!

The remarks about abandonment of the eastern end of the LIRR main
line being a boom for railfans is rildiculous at best. I anybody thinks an
occasional tourist or dinner train is a good substitute for regular service
to New York, they are sadly mistaken.
Don't believe me?, ask the people on Cape Cod if they are better off with
their tourist trains or dinner trains than they would be with regular
commuter service. Look at the back-ups at the two bridges over the canal
on a summer weekend.
Eastern Long Island faces some of the same growth that Westerchester,
Putnam, Dutchess, Rockland, Orange and Columbia counties have faced
over the past 20 years.
Do you really thing the expressways will handle this traffic?, I doubt it.
Noel Weaver

RR Chef:

It's already been made clear by RMLI that they cannot and will not pick up the commuter operation of the main line east of KO

Noel Weaver:

Actually, it would be the same if they ran commuter trains with the 2 steam engines, as there is currently no train from east of KO to west of KO. Not saying that it's the right way to operate the line, just saying that it really wouldn't be much of a change.

First, I didn't say anything about RMLI running commuter service. Second, if you want to talk ridiculous, let's talk about the way the MTA and the LIRR have treated customers on the North Fork for the last 20 years. Regular service to New York? I think you need to get a schedule and check for yourself to see just how regular that service is. Better yet, get someone to drive you out to Greenport, lets say around mid morning, and now try to get back to New York, then we can talk about ridiclous. The LIRR is guilty of mismangement of a valuable asset and now it appears as if the day of reckoning is here.
My comments were based strictly on the article which stated abandonment as one of the options.I am not a foaming at the mouth rail loon who thinks every stretch of track should be preserved. However this stretch of track is one of the last pieces of original track from the 1830's and should be preserved for it's historic value if the decision to abandon is made.Will this happen? I doubt it. If you read the last part of my statement that is what I think will actually happen based on the LIRR's disregard for it's history and it's customers.

I makes absolutely no sense to abandon the line to Greenport, I know
there is not much service there today but it is still in service and it is still
possible to use it.
Lets compare the former New York Central/Penn Central Harlem Division.
This line could have been kept in operation in the early to mid 1970's
when the state of New York had no interest in keeping it running past
Dover Plains. Luckily, there were a couple of decent freight customers
in Wassaic so the final system plan for Conrail provided for freight service
to Wassaic.
A few years later and suburbia is pushing its way northward. Use of the
Harlem Line is increasing by leaps and bounds and it is electrified to
Brewster resulting in even more increased use. Service to Dover Plains
is also increased and made more useable, more increased use.
Finally, although there is no longer any freight business in Wassaic, the
track was wisely kept in place and finally the state purchased the stretch
from Dover Plains to Wassaic from Conrail, rebuilt it and established/
extended the service from Dover Plains to Wassaic.
Too bad the line is no longer in place north of Wassaic as suburbia is
continuing to push its way north through this area and if it were possible,
the trains probably would too.
I do not think the state would make the same mistake again and allow the
east end of the LIRR to be sold off or torn up. Down the road in the years
ahead, I think there will be much more train service to the east end of
Long Island, it make sense.
Noel Weaver

It's time the MTA got its priorities straight. If its talking about service cuts, then it has not business investing in mega-billion dollar projects like East Side Access, Second Ave. subway, etc.

Our tax (and fare) dollars should be used to support service first, rather than lining the pockets of the well-connected within the building trades.

They propose to cut 30 trains from the rush hour schedule and eliminate weekend service to PJ. So why do they need a new yard on the PJ line, a third track on the main or even East Side Access all of which are budgeted for the same period the cuts are to go into effect? This makes no sense at all. Just who's running this show? Enron management from jail?

As a railroad employee, i can personally tell you that the scenario of abondoning the W. Hempstead, Montauk, and Greenport lines is very very unlikely. For starters, commuters would protest to such a degree, it would probably end up costing the RR more money to defend it's proposals than to just run trains on those lines. Secondly, and in the case of the Montauk branch, the RR gets a lot of money from riders who travel to and from the Hamptons. Have you ever been on a train to Montauk and seen how many people are on board. There are usually more people on those trains then on any given rush hour train in western LI.

The most likely scenario would be to cut back on service on certain branches. In all truth, there are so many things the RR can do to cut costs that would eliminate the need to cut service. Obviously someone up top is not doing what they are suppose to be doing. Rasing fares is not the solution either encourage commuters to use their cars into the city because the expense of commuting will be in par with that of riding the LIRR. So much for trying to get people off the roads and onto mass transit! This is truly the case of someone having some very poor management skills and lousy accounting skills at the top. You know what? Before you expand the service (i.e. East side access, 2nd Ave subway, etc...) improve your present service first. There are priorities!

Mark777,

I agree Before any new construction is continued/started work on improving what is already here. everything the MTA proposed totally contridicts the need for new construction. also if there in such need i would also suggust putting an end on any more M7/new subways being delivered untill some one figures out where the money is going and how to correct and re finence current system.

BTW, arent they getting any money from scrapping the M1's


What would the RR be like if the RB branch relitivy intact was restored instead of the airtrain benig built?

or as somone mentioned bout service North of Dover plains on MN what about service E of PJ no one at the time ever thought that it was needed to keep the rails intact.

Whatever the problem is. it has to be located some where on the top chin of command for the MTA. Yes i agree that the LIRR/MN does have its own internal issues, but none of those issues can be turrly adressed untill the big issue "MTA" is taken care of.
1) clean out the problems in MTA
2) clean out the problems w/ LIRR/MN
3) when all is back on track re start the spending in a wise proffional and non political mannor.