HEADS UP: Heritage Units on NS Southern Tier

sd80mac wrote:

It was my understanding that NS want each RR's ORIGINAL paint scheme. It was already mentioned earlier.

well.."original scheme" isnt always practical..
and in the case of the LV, the scheme they used is technically the 5th major LV scheme!
1. Pre-war switcher scheme is the "original" LV diesel scheme, never used on a road unit.
2. Cornell red with black stripes.
3. yellowjacket.
4. snowbird.
5. THEN the Cornell Red and yellow scheme, that NS used on this unit.

but even though it was the 5th LV diesel scheme, it was by far the best and most obvious scheme for NS to use,
because it was the most "modern" scheme and the best scheme to adapt to a GE widecab.

In this case, "original" scheme simply doesn't apply..the "original" scheme is definitely not the "best" or the most logical scheme to use..
im sure there will be other examples of this in the heritage program.

Scot

scottychaos wrote:

sd80mac wrote:

It was my understanding that NS want each RR's ORIGINAL paint scheme. It was already mentioned earlier.

well.."original scheme" isnt always practical..
and in the case of the LV, the scheme they used is technically the 5th major LV scheme!
1. Pre-war switcher scheme is the "original" LV diesel scheme, never used on a road unit.
2. Cornell red with black stripes.
3. yellowjacket.
4. snowbird.
5. THEN the Cornell Red and yellow scheme, that NS used on this unit.

but even though it was the 5th LV diesel scheme, it was by far the best and most obvious scheme for NS to use,
because it was the most "modern" scheme and the best scheme to adapt to a GE widecab.

In this case, "original" scheme simply doesn't apply..the "original" scheme is definitely not the "best" or the most logical scheme to use..
im sure there will be other examples of this in the heritage program.

Scot

thanks for clarify on LV.. im no expert on LV... but I used "my understanding" as if it was supposed to be that way... it does not means that NS would follow their choice of original scheme as their final decision.

scottychaos wrote:

sd80mac wrote:

It was my understanding that NS want each RR's ORIGINAL paint scheme. It was already mentioned earlier.

well.."original scheme" isnt always practical..
and in the case of the LV, the scheme they used is technically the 5th major LV scheme!
1. Pre-war switcher scheme is the "original" LV diesel scheme, never used on a road unit.
2. Cornell red with black stripes.
3. yellowjacket.
4. snowbird.
5. THEN the Cornell Red and yellow scheme, that NS used on this unit.

but even though it was the 5th LV diesel scheme, it was by far the best and most obvious scheme for NS to use,
because it was the most "modern" scheme and the best scheme to adapt to a GE widecab.

In this case, "original" scheme simply doesn't apply..the "original" scheme is definitely not the "best" or the most logical scheme to use..
im sure there will be other examples of this in the heritage program.

Scot

i looked back and cant find where it says... Someone or article mentioned that it would be original scheme.

however I see that in NS announcement, where it says "close to original design as possible" due to locomotive body. I guess that may had confused for RR's original design. SInce I cant find the article where it says it would be the RR's original scheme, I take my word back. sorry.

Matt Langworthy wrote:

poppyl wrote:Keep your eyes open, folks. You may see one of the GE's on the Tier sooner than you think. Look for one to headend the Bow or Cayuga coal drags maybe.

Did the AES Cauyga plant reopen? I thought it was bankrupt.

As always, you are correct, Matt. My mistake and oversight -- although AES is actively shopping Cayuga and Greenridge, but if they ever reopen, they'll be gas fired. Sure would have been nice, however, to see the LV unit running on an actual LV route.

Poppyl

poppyl wrote:

Matt Langworthy wrote:

poppyl wrote:Keep your eyes open, folks. You may see one of the GE's on the Tier sooner than you think. Look for one to headend the Bow or Cayuga coal drags maybe.

Did the AES Cauyga plant reopen? I thought it was bankrupt.

As always, you are correct, Matt. My mistake and oversight -- although AES is actively shopping Cayuga and Greenridge, but if they ever reopen, they'll be gas fired. Sure would have been nice, however, to see the LV unit running on an actual LV route.

Poppyl

A wishful thought would be to see it come up to Geneva, NY

Getting as close as possible to the original paint scheme is in reference to trying to get the selected paint scheme as accurate as possible to the prototype.

It's not saying that they're selecting the 1st paint scheme used by each of these lines. Heck if they did that, many of these would probably be basic black. The first diesel purchases for many roads were switchers. And most early switchers wore basic black during the 30's and 40's.

Leo_Ames wrote:Getting as close as possible to the original paint scheme is in reference to trying to get the selected paint scheme as accurate as possible to the prototype.

It's not saying that they're selecting the 1st paint scheme used by each of these lines. Heck if they did that, many of these would probably be basic black. The first diesel purchases for many roads were switchers. And most early switchers wore basic black during the 30's and 40's.

Agreed. The Erie heritage unit is going to wear the tasteful two tone green passenger scheme of the 1950s, not the earlier black and yellow scheme worn by Erie diesels.

poppyl wrote:As always, you are correct, Matt. My mistake and oversight -- although AES is actively shopping Cayuga and Greenridge, but if they ever reopen, they'll be gas fired. Sure would have been nice, however, to see the LV unit running on an actual LV route.

We may get that chance at some point- since the Ithaca Secondary still has salt traffic. There's also plenty of NS traffic on former LV routes in PA and NJ, so I'm sure #8104 will eventually wind up on "home" rails.

lvrr325 wrote:There's an LV heritage unit now?

Per the article I saw, basically they hit all the bases except NYC (CSX trademark) and for some unknown reason may be including New Haven (NS does not operate on any NH track) but had left out DL&W and CNJ. And I presume the green Southern GP60 is still out there, too.

Also, unlike the UP heritage units with the goofy artist interpetations of paint schemes, these will be along the lines of the Pan Am heritage units, which more or less faithfully reproduce actual paint schemes.

Regarding the use of NH, the use of the trademark is discussed here: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopi ... 7#p1040197

Tom Curtin wrote:Thw New Haven Railroad Historical and Technical Association (NHRHTA) owns the New Haven logo and paint scheme, and has for a while.

I think the non-inclusion of a NH unit had less to do with trademark issues,
and more to do with the fact that NS operates No historic NH trackage..

yes, NH went into PC..and PC is a NS "heritage road"..
but because NS operates no NH tracks, NH, by itself, isn't really a NS heritage road at all..

Scot

It'd sure be neat to see an L&NE unit! But if they did every road that eventually made up today's NS, there'd be dozens of paint schemes out there!

Jim Rowland

century430 wrote:It'd sure be neat to see an L&NE unit! But if they did every road that eventually made up today's NS, there'd be dozens of paint schemes out there!

Jim Rowland

dozens? technically there would be..thousands..
(although if you only count railroads that had diesel paint schemes, then "dozens" would apply..I would guess about 50.)

Scot

New Haven was eliminated due to NS not operating any former NH trackage. Was mentioned in Trains Magazine a issue or two ago in a article that clearly was done with some input with the NS managers directly involved with this program. Also did in another road or two that was on the initial list of railroads to be represented by this program.

I did post on NS' Facebook page about having ERIE,& DLW in Elmira for showing. & LV in Sayre (old location of one of the world's largest train yard). PRR would also work for Elmira with Elmira Branch.

For the first time, a NS heritage unit came tantalizingly close to the Southern Tier main, but then turned away..
NS 8114, the "Original Norfolk Southern" unit, came East through Ohio up to Buffalo on NS early this morning,
She probably spent most of the morning in Buffalo..
(sorry I didn't report it earlier for Buffalo people..but I just found about it just now, about 3pm.)
and there was chatter that it might head out the ST main to Binghamton..
But it is now reported that she crossed into Canada from Buffalo, and is now headed West from Fort Erie, *away* from the ST Main
on a CN train:

http://heritageunits.com/Locomotive/Detail/NS8114

Which sadly brings me to a related topic I have been researching the past few weeks..
Railfans have hoped, from the start of the NS Heritage program, that NS might make an effort to specifically
send the Heritage units to "Home Territories"..at least once..They would send the Erie, DL&W and LV units to the ST Main,
so we could see them in Buffalo, (over Letchworth gorge) Elmira, Binghamton, etc. and perhaps the LV unit in Sayre..

But now it seems there are not, and never have been, any such plans..
The Heritage units are wandering NS randomly, same as any other NS unit, or some are assigned
to regions where their particular talents (based on locomotive model) are of the most use, such as heavy coal drags in "coal territory"..
they are being treated the same as any NS units of the same model..paint scheme is irrelevant.
So, unless something changes, if we do ever see the Erie, DL&W or LV units along the ST main, it will be pure chance..
and it might not even happen at all..

(The Reading and LV units went out to Colorado and Montana last week! as NS run-through power on BNSF trains..)

NS 8114, the "Original Norfolk Southern" unit, in Buffalo today, does mark the first instance of a Heritage unit in NY state..
(edit..its actually the 2nd known Heritage unit in NY state..the PRR unit made it Campbell Hall Junction in June..but this is the first heritage unit in Western NY then)

Scot