Green Line Type 9 Thread

[BandM4266]

Longest appears to be the 8-segment version of the Combino Surpa in Hungary, at 72 meters (the length of 3 Green Line cars).

As for why? Because Boston is fond of running 1-car trains, even though the time is rare that you don't need 2 cars. 2-car-length trams also are problematic because then you don't have a 3-car-length option. Until the T ponies up someday and acknowledges that the Green Line needs to become a modern light rail system, there's not going to be either a signalling system capable of handling regular 4-car-length trains, nor the throughput to run only 2-car-length trains at rush hour.

Why would you need a signaling system capable of handling regular 4-car trains? There are only a Handful of stations capable of handling 4 cars, 4th car would be front door enter exit only at the rest at best.

[MBTA3247]

Longest appears to be the 8-segment version of the Combino Surpa in Hungary, at 72 meters (the length of 3 Green Line cars).

As for why? Because Boston is fond of running 1-car trains, even though the time is rare that you don't need 2 cars. 2-car-length trams also are problematic because then you don't have a 3-car-length option. Until the T ponies up someday and acknowledges that the Green Line needs to become a modern light rail system, there's not going to be either a signalling system capable of handling regular 4-car-length trains, nor the throughput to run only 2-car-length trains at rush hour.

Why would you need a signaling system capable of handling regular 4-car trains? There are only a Handful of stations capable of handling 4 cars, 4th car would be front door enter exit only at the rest at best.

The signal system can already handle 4-car trains.

[TCRT612]

Shouldn't the cars be able to go around any curve or hump or dip within the carmaker's published curve radius?

Seems strange that the railhead needs to be ground to specific tolerances to make the cars run reliably.

Never heard of any track and derailing problems with PCC streetcars when those were first delivered.

My understanding (and I am NOT a transit vehicle engineer; I just read the audit on this) is that the cause of the characteristic derailments with the Type 8s was actually a compounding of two separate issues:

- First, the rails were ground to an older flange angle standard, and Breda built the Type 8s to a newer standard.

- Second, the center section was very light.

The combination of these two problems meant that the center section, with its lighter weight and improper flange angle, could very easily "climb" the rails and derail.

I would imagine that this would not be an issue with PCCs (and LRVs/Type 7s also) because even if the flange angle was wrong (perhaps unlikely with PCCs given their age?) there are no lightweight sections in those cars like there are in the Type 8s.

[The EGE]

Yeah, it appears I misread this thread about 4-car trains.

As for platforms: all the underground stations can handle 4-car trains, for when one 2-car set rescues another. Not sure about surface stops. Definitely no 4-car trains to Heath Street, and some of the B stops are pretty short. Blandford Street can only handle 2 and a half cars anyway. There's no reason why the system (with electrical upgrades) couldn't handle 4-car trains regularly, but you'd need a lot of asphalt.

[FP10]

I don't know if it ever made it's way over. It probably saw it's competition, the LRV, said "Das muss ein Witz !" ("This must be a joke !"), and went home.

That's basically what my German relatives said when they saw the condition of our interstates and Amtrak. As for the type 8 debacle, would anyone say the system is better afterwards, since it forced the T to upgrade its infrastructure to a better standard? The bredas also seem to be doing allright now, although I still prefer to ride in a type 7 since the seating arrangement is much more comfortable.

[CircusFreakGRITZ]

Yeah, it appears I misread this thread about 4-car trains.

As for platforms: all the underground stations can handle 4-car trains, for when one 2-car set rescues another. Not sure about surface stops. Definitely no 4-car trains to Heath Street, and some of the B stops are pretty short. Blandford Street can only handle 2 and a half cars anyway. There's no reason why the system (with electrical upgrades) couldn't handle 4-car trains regularly, but you'd need a lot of asphalt.

[3rdrail]

MBTA runs demo run utilizing new Type 9 equipment working out the bugs. Type 9's will have dining, convertible, coach, sleeping, and lavatory options !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkpCzp0C ... =spotlight

[Adams_Umass_Boston]

I will just take the Jaguar version, thank you mate.

[diburning]

April Fools has come early!

[Arlington]

Where did the Type 9 process leave off? Will the Type 7 Refurb delay the need for the Type 9? (or the $ for its purchase?)

[BostonUrbEx]

Where did the Type 9 process leave off? Will the Type 7 Refurb delay the need for the Type 9? (or the $ for its purchase?)

According to a recent (within the past 7 days) article by Steve Annear, the Type 7 overhaul and Type 9 purchase were put out to bid at the same time.

[-Garrett]

Is there ANY news on this?
It seems to take the MBTA about as long to get new cars ordered and into service as some of these cars are expected to last!

[CircusFreakGRITZ]

Is there ANY news on this?
It seems to take the MBTA about as long to get new cars ordered and into service as some of these cars are expected to last!

Sorry, due to budgetary constraints, the PCC's will be making their comeback on the Green Line. Mattapan-Ashmont will become buses.

[ns3010]

Per the 21st Centry Transportation Ten Year Plan issued today:

Green Line Cars ($732 million) – Funds new Green Line cars and system improvements, reducing wait times and allowing for more 3-car trains that enable increased passenger capacity. The cars will be made in Massachusetts, supporting the local economy.

(Note, the lines below are the same stuff I said in the Red/Orange Line Car Procurement thread)

Nothing new, but the "made in Massachusetts" inclusion is of interest.

There's currently no builders with plants in MA, and the chances that a builder would be willing to build a new plant for only one contract are low (although not unprecedented, see SEPTA SLV's and Rotem). I wouldn't be surprised to see this detail dropped when a builder is chosen.

Link to plan: http://mbta.com/about_the_mbta/news_eve ... nth=&year=

Also, in the December SIP status update, another short blurb about the Type 9's:

Proposals were submitted to the MBTA by two potential builders of the new Green Line vehicles on June 13, 2011, and are now under review by the MBTA Technical Selection Committee. Approval by the MBTA Board has been pushed out until late fall 2012.

Sounds like we'll be hearing about a contract any time now, assuming approval hasn't been pushed off again. I'm curious to see who the two builders were. There's several possibilities as to who it could have been. I'm kinda surprised there were only two bidders.

Link to report: http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/ ... Update.pdf

[Adams_Umass_Boston]

There may have only been two, because of the Build in Massachusetts clause?