DM30 and DE30

S@fino asks:

I'm not sure, but I think that on Oyster Bay - Penn Station route there's 3rd rail starting just in Jamaica (?)...

S@fino:

On the Oyster Bay - Penn Station run, third rail starts a short distance east of the East Williston station on the Oyster Bay branch and continues all the way into Penn Station.

Dave Keller

Dave, before they electrified the main past Mineola (1987?), how many electrics did they run out of Williston? Did they store some for the rush hours, and if they did, how and where? I understand they run one or two a day now, why didn't they just phase out the electrics to Williston when they extended the 3rd rails out past Hicksville? Its only a couple of miles, isn't it? Thanks Mac....

As I best recall, there was always only two MU trains (east and west) to operate from East Williston, on in the AM and one in the PM. They would operate as equipment one way and carry passengers the other. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The territory where DM's operate on their own power continues to be extended to avoid the useless things from gapping in Harold, Jay or Hall.

They are plagued with reliability problems in electric mode and are subject to shutting down when changing modes, and other problems.

They do not work well.

C

As Clemuel said, MU service to and from E. Williston was minimal.

Dave Keller

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't 3rd rail extend to Hicksville before the 1987 electrification to Ronkonkoma? Wasn't the main line electrified to Hicksville where 3rd rail then continued on the Port Jeff line as far as Huntington sometime in the late 60's or 70's?

The electrification to Ronkonkoma started in 1986 from Hicksville and went into service on 12/28/87 with full service on 1/18/88. The electrification to Huntington extended east of Mineola, and went into service in 1971. Prior to that, all electrification went to East Williston on the Oyster Bay Branch to where electrification ends there currently, and most electrics terminated at Mineola prior to 1971.

It seemed there were more than 2 a day to williston in the 60's. Didn't all the electrics turn around in Williston, and not Mineola? Why did they set it up like this, did it have something to do with the 3rd rail running down to Hempstead Crossing? Thanks for your Knowledge and your patience...

Maybe they turned at East Williston (I read somewhere that's why they electrified to EW, to give the Mineola trains a place to turn) but the stop isn't shown in the public timetables except for the few trains. Probably the train was supposed to empty at Mineola.

Electrification extended to less than 500' east of MP20 at East Williston to allow MU trains to be moved to the opposite direction track.

There was a crossover in front of the Mineola station but that was not a sufficient means to move an entire train without having to back it into the station area again, once it cleared the crossover switches.

There was a similar situation west of the East Williston depot until 1955, when the crossover was removed and moved to a point east of the depot. This allowed an entire train to crossover from the eastbound track to the westbound track without any additional back-up required once it cleared the switch. It also kept the extra train movements away from the depot area to minimize the risk of pedestrian accidents.

As for electrification down to Hempstead Crossing, this was three-fold:

1. DD1s could switch freight along the branch.

2. Mu trains were regularly scheduled between Mineola and Valley Stream via West Hempstead.

3. The ex-Ocean Electric trolleys on the Mitchell field Shuttle ran on third rail and made trolley stops part-way up the Mineola-Garden City line.

Dave Keller

Did they ever give any thought to circling the trains? Bring a train down the Hempstead line, and instead of going to Country Life and Hempstead stations (sorry Hemp, you could just move Country a few yards) just bring it up to Mineola and then send it back west to Jamaca? They could have done the opposite with the east bound MU's on the main line, bring them back west on the Hemp. line. This way they could get double the service from one train. They could have used the same concept (bigger circle) with the West Hemp. line. It would have also done away with the need to turn them at Williston....

When was the section of the OB branch to East Williston electrified?

Art Huneke's website has 4 shots of East Williston taken in 1939.

Third rail is evident in all the views.

I'd have to think (without researching, of course) that the electrification was done at the same time it was run to Mineola, to allow MU trains to switch direction.

Dave Keller

I have train orders from 1929 issued at "MT" tower, Mineola (before it was named "Nassau") for MU motors between Mineola and Hempstead Crossing.

So . . . electrification to Mineola was there at least as early as 1929, perhaps even earlier.

I'll have to do a little research.

Dave Keller

I seem to recall reading that the rail went in in 1910 or so. There mostr certainly was service to mitchell field by that time - I've seen pics of the ex garden city station with third rail and MP-41s, from the teens.

Electrification reached Floral Park and Hempstead in 1908 with the first train running in May of that year. It may very well have extended further east to Mineola by 1910. I'll have to check my data files.


The MP41s ran between Garden City and Mitchell Field in shuttle service beginning in 1933, not the teens.

Between 1915 and 1933 ex-Ocean Electric Railway trolleys operated via third rail over that line and part-way up the branch between Hempstead Crossing and Mineola making trolley stops as far east as Salisbury Plains (at that time known as Meadowbrook before the station stop was relocated).

Dave Keller