DE30AC & DM30AC

Question 1: Are the DE30AC and the DM30AC still being produced?
-and-
Question 2: Are any other North American railroads considering ordering the DE30AC or the DM30AC?

They were only produced for Long Island and if other railroads were smart, they'd stay away from it.

emfinite wrote:They were only produced for Long Island and if other railroads were smart, they'd stay away from it.

Hehe. Yeah, they better stay FAR away from those things.

These days, GM doesn't like to talk about those units.

Pretty much wrecked their reputation in the passenger world, but hey, build junk, claim it's not your fault you can't build a decent locomotive, then blame the purchaser for all the problems....

Forget the things themselves, the prime movers are junk - I remember seeing brandie new ones pulling trains, with the tops totally covered in oil...

I live a mile from Glen Head, near the lilco plant. I can STILL hear those POS locos comming from Sea Cliff. And they're getting louder all the time (typical diesel).

Oddly, they're quieter when running than when idleling. And they hit a nice resonant frequency in there when sitting. Fun fun fun until everything dies from vibration...

If the LIRR's stupid enough to not be all electric when these turkeys go, I just hope they don't go to EMD for another fleet of junk.

Then again, I'm amazed GM hasn't dumped that division by now, they've dumped pretty much everything else....

EMD may not like to talk about them but I guess they like to show them because they have a pic them on their website. See link:
http://www.gmemd.com/en/locomotive/passenger/

boy oh boy, someone really doesn't like the DM's and DE's! Well, I can't disagree, they have had their fare share of problems, but let me tell you, these things can pull contrary to what people say. After seeing a pair pull the 12-car Cannon Ball back on Memorial day weekend, I'm convinced that they have quite a bit of power for a 3000hp Locomotive. Those things brought that monster train up to speed in no time flat. Try that with a GE Genesis and see how long it takes them to get up to MAS. On MNR, those things seem to take night and day with just 7-single level coaches up to MAS. As far as having their roofs all sooty, all diesels do it. Hey diesel fuel is not the cleanest. If you don't wash them regularly, would you expect them to stay shinny and clean?

We need engines that don't run off of a computer. Sure they can pull, but when that computer crashes, you have a 350,000 pound block of steel and the burden of fixing it for the next rush hour.

Someone told me the DE/DM-30s were LIRR designed. That way sub-systems would be built by LI businesses (many of which went out of business right after).

GM's real passenger loco is the F-59.

I thought the DE30 has one of the best engines offered today, a version of EMD's popular 710 primemover. UP has ordered over 1,000 locomotives with that primemover in them and from what I've read they are very happy with it.
EMD no longer builds the F-59. They have left LA's MetroLink stranded to find new power, which will probably be ex. Amtrak F-40's since the F-59 is no longer available from EMD. They will not build it. Somehow I think if a railroad would ask for a DE30 the answer would be the same...

I tend to think EMD's only involvement with passenger rail is going to be prime mover supply, from now on. The F-59's a wasted old design (DC traction? Come on, this is 2004, not 1954), and the DE's a certified failure. Heck, even Metra won't buy their junk anymore.

I've heard GE's are slow, and yeah, every GE hauled train I've been on was not impressive out of the station, but then, the DE-30s are good at getting rolling, then they seem to fall on their faces around 30-40 or so. The GEs are weird, they're slow as molasses getting out of the station, but they seem to take off after that. *shrug*

Wasn't slow loading one of the LIRR's bad excuses for not buying GE?

As far as the 710? Yeah, it's good for dragging slow heavy freights around without getting any maintenance. For passenger service, it wouldn't be my first choice...

Too bad the LIRR didn't do what NJT did, which was just look overseas to someone who does actually know how to build a passenger loco. EMD and GE really don't know how to anymore, and it shows.

(and let's face it, the ALP-46s went into service a LOT smoother than the DE/DMs did. Admittingly, the jury's still out on the PL-42s.)

And just what is wrong with the F59? It's a proven design, which works quite well. It was people with your thinking who dressed up the DE/DM's with all that pretty computerized stuff.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
And why are you comparing the integration of a pure electric loco (ALP46), versus a Diesel-Electric?
BTW, the 710 prime mover is a HIGHLY RATED powerplant.

-Tom

Just like on the Titanic, the pple of that time put all their fath (and in that case life) in the hands of high tech (for that time) equptment, to get them from England to America. And stupidy and "Technology" bitem in the ass in the end.

Same these days. we throw everything to a computer "they dont need a pay check every week." thinking that it will solve all human error in the end. but then when a computer craps out, well.... i guss your, up shits creek w/o a paddle. millions of American dollars in new "high tech" equpt sitting on a "dead Line" waiting for a repair job that may even exeed the value of the equpt.

Were putting too much fath and belefe in latest technologies. that may (hopefully not) bite our generations in the ass like it did to the pple on the Titanic.

Lack of commonsence, Stupidy, and To much fath in technology, is shure as hell a resipe for desaster.

Oh <b>please.</b> The M-7s are as computerized as the DE/DMs, and they run just fine. The ALP-46s are as computerized, they run fine. Your average automobile lives and dies by it's computer, and they all run fine.

The problem with the DE/DMs isn't the computerization, it's EMD is incapable of building a decent passenger locomotive that works right. A good chunk of the thing's problems - frame cracks, vibration, high fuel use, poor overal reliability - have NOTHING to do with them having that evil computer in them, and a LOT to do with just piss poor design and testing.

As for the F-59? What's wrong with it? It's a piece of junk, that's what. It's based of technology that was obsolete years ago. Nobody in their right mind buys anything with DC motors in it anymore, because they suck. They're fragile maintenance hogs that perform like crap. AC's here, it's proven, it works better, it's not going away.

You're not going to see movement away from computers in these things, guys. DC traction's dead, emissions regulations effectively require electronic controls, automatic diagnostic and performance monitoring is where industry's headed, redundant safety systems, better wheelslip control, equipment protection.. There pressure today is cheaper, faster, cleaner. It's only natural that the rail world is going to implement technology that's been proven for the last 20+ years everywhere else.

"I'm convinced that [LIRR's EMDs] have quite a bit of power for a 3000hp Locomotive."

Anybody know what the LIRR double-deck cars weigh? Supposedly they're heavier than other bilevels, right? And of course much heavier than Comets.

For whatever reason, a 3-car LIRR train takes about the same time for a standing-start mile as an NJT F40/GP40 with 5-6 Comets.

Many months ago nimbykiller directed me to a website having specs for the c3's. As I recollect the weight is about 135,000 lb. Compare to M1/3's of about 90,000lb. The earlier stuff was around 93,000lb.

Regarding "powerful for a 3000HP locomotive", the power of all 3,000HP locomotives is nominally 3,000HP. Actual HP varies a little based maintenance, fuel settings, etc. From what I have read the difference in acceleration from order to order is related gearing, adhesion, and the rate the diesel's horsepower can be transferred to the traction motors. A few engineers have told me that older EMD's were slower to load than their Alco counterparts. I get the impression that modern GE's do not load as quickly as EMD's.

Notwithstanding the previous paragraph I understand that LIRR 3,000HP locomotives have only about 2,300HP available for traction. The prime mover generates about 3200HP, but 200 used for cooling the engine, for drag on the alternator, air compressor etc. This would leave 3,000hp for traction, but up to 700hp is used for lighting, heating and cooling the coaches. Anyone, please correct me.