CSX opposes NYS high speed plans

CComMack wrote:Except for short stretches to get through narrow targets like Downtown Rochester, why should NYS even be dealing with CSX and its ROW? At the point that you have to build separate tracks to go 110 MPH, just go ahead and build greenfield ROWs between the major cities, or follow the Thruway, and save yourself the argument with CSX over how far apart the track centers need to be. NYS probably even saves money by not trying to do too many things at once. None of the Upstate cities are big enough or have dense enough exurbs to pose a problem on the urban sections, because they're all short. The countryside is big and largely empty, and the entire point of Upstate NYS is that it's a nice wide corridor of flat in between the mountains, so there really shouldn't be an impediment to building a new road with an arbitrarily high MAS. The NYC built its ROW for 110, maybe 125 in stretches, but that's it. Greenfield or greenfield+Thruway can get you 186, 200, or 220, depending on how aggressive you want to be. At French construction costs for LGV, that puts you right around $7.5B for ALB-BUF, which is right around how much money Andrew Cuomo is lighting on fire in the name of a new Tappan Zee Bridge.

Why deal with CSX and the existing ROW? Because it exists. Regardless of how much of a pain it will be to deal with CSX, trying to deal with 1000s of land owners to acquire a new ROW is a complete non-starter in today's day and age.

The NYC built their ROW for the maximum speeds available to them then. By this logic, we should never be able to upgrade parts of the NEC to 150 or even 160 mph.

And French construction costs are irrelevant in NYS, for many reasons.

While a whole new ROW is probably an unattainable ask, might some "corner cutting" higher speed sections be constructed where the CSX alignment doesn't take the straightest route. For example: running parallel to the thruway west of Utica to Verona and bypassing Rome? (Bearing in mind that in some cases that some sort of geographic obstacle will have caused some diversions so would not be an economic reroute now either)

Mr. Junkie, sorry to get you upset. I shall reveal myself.
Over 42 years on RR Penn Central Conrail Amtrak and also a Union rep. No disrespect intended, just perspective. I have always tried to respect everyone's opinion, Period. As a Union Rep I have valued every member's opinion and plight, their guilt notwithsatnding, and I carry that to sites such as this. PEACE to you Brother!

Just to clear the air, PBJ stands for Peanut Butter and Jelly, my favorite sandwich, except for Bumble Bee Tuna on white with a dill pickle!

Then as union rep you should know never make an assumption on a rule. In a previous post you stated MNRR allows the ACELA trains to tilt. While sitting waiting for a very large piece of the Hudson Highlands to be cleared I glanced over the Hew Haven ETT SI which states all tilt mechanism must be cut out and the RTC notified as such. This was as of the last G.O. dated March 2014.

Ill keep working so your check shows up once a month .

Greg Moore wrote:Why deal with CSX and the existing ROW? Because it exists. Regardless of how much of a pain it will be to deal with CSX, trying to deal with 1000s of land owners to acquire a new ROW is a complete non-starter in today's day and age.

Short response: the Thruway also exists.

Longer response: I agree with you that a new ROW parallel to the electric division is a non-starter, but once you're north of Croton, the population thins out to the point that, even if you're keeping curve radii to 5400m and avoiding tunneling, you ought to be able to avoid any towns you don't want to go through. You're taking farmland, but California is successfully taking far more productive farmland, from far more politically powerful farmers, through eminent domain for its HSR project. I don't think assembling the land for greenfield ROW will be a politically easy task, but it's not going to be as hard as the pessimists are saying today. And as long as CSX is the CSX we all know and love, pulling teeth with them to get 90 or 110 is a waste of effort when we could be pulling teeth with pissed-off Dutchess and Columbia County landowners to get 186 or 220. It's a simple ROI calculation.

There are enough reports in the moderator queue to warrant a cooling off period.

LOCKED...for now.

Tad, Jeff, or Greg will make an assessment in a day or so..