CSX-Oak Point/Fremont

P&W did come into town last night around 12:30. I have no idea when they'll be going back north. Best guess is sometime btw 5 and 8pm this evening if they fall into the usual weekday pattern. I don't recall offhand the last time they ran on a Saturday though, so who knows. Certainly is a nice enough day...

Saw the southbound CSX transfer run with 22 trash cars and 18 others cross Hell Gate Bridge around 11am today. Earlier this week a saw an inbound 90 car run.

NYC trash looks like it is moving steadily off of trucks and onto CSX. It is nice to see CSX win the business, but a challenge to your tolerance for foul smells if you ever spend time near Oak Point Yard. I prefer this challenge to driving behind trash trucks on the highway.

Saw P&W FPCH heading northbound at around 6:30pm on Saturday, right on point with Dogbert's prediction. GE 4004 leading along with 2 other GEs and 2 SD60 leasers. A run on Saturday is quite rare and I'm glad I caught this one. Crew was friendly as usual...

Someone help me out here, I dont think I'm losing it but isnt P&W going slower than lets say 7 years ago. I remember back in middle school, when I saw the GEs pass by with 15-20 cars, they would move at about 15-20mph. I got scared since I was soo used to CSX speed of 10mph. So what happened now? ...the loads i suppose? Even though, they have 5 units....so......I have no clue, I'm lost lol.

The years have not been kind to the Bay Ridge Sec. track,CSX may inspect the track from time to time,and might put in a tie as needed
But since the PC days,very little $$ has been spent on the Secondary trackage,what was mainline trackage with multiple main tracks
has turned into a rotting,forgotten part of the network,only after NY+A's takeover of the freight "franchise" from MTA/LIRR,there's
finally some growth in the value of freight service on the Island and the slow return of carfloat service from Greeville NJ to Bay Ridge.
The Bay Ridge-Fremont segment changed ownership from time to time as well,From joint ownership,NHRR+LIRR,to total PC,then CR,
reverted back to total LIRR ownership/now NY+A control.

Backshop,

NYA has replaced ties and done other work to the Bayridge including the Fremont area. Some was actually money from a Port Authority grant. Right now they are rebuilding Fremont 3 Iron interchange to have 4 tracks upstairs at Fresh pond. When CSX took over a bit later they did tie and track work to their side(railroad East) of Fremont. In fact they used to bring down the interchange at night while this work was going on. I'm not sure of any recent improvements.


When NYA started to use 65 St in 1999 the yard was in good shape not really being used since rebuilt in 1983. The NYNJ continues to do some track improvements in the 65 St. vicinity.

Figures CSX had to spend $$$ up on Hellgate to co-exisit with Amtrak on the bridge,the speed might be 20mph,but the freight cars
"rock and roll" at least will not scare the passengers. NH(broke),PC(didn't care)let the Bay Ridge branch go to seed,
LIRR had let freight service dwindle to almost nothing,had no $$ to spend on Bay Ridge-Fremont.
CR ran it the best it could by patching it as needed.
If freight growth c0ntinues up,maybe THEN CSX will spend the $$ needed to get the freight tracks up to 35-40mph.
If P+W's FPCH was running real slow,might be due to a restricted car/Track conditions imposed by CSX Bulliten Order.

Oak Point - Fremont gets scant mention in CSX timetables too. It doesn't even rate "Secondary Track" status, simply put it is an industrial track with restricted speed not exceeding 10 MPH. In the case of the P & W this means it is a long stretch of 10 MPH running all the way from Pelham Bay to Fremont. This is trackage that in the New Haven days was good for 45 MPH between Pelham Bay and Oak Point and 40 MPH between Oak Point and Fremont. Two main tracks all the way with automatic block signals and electrified as well. If a heavy freight train was making a run for Hell Gate Bridge we would really move in both directions especially with diesels, the electric motors would not stall on the bridge (at least the Virginians did not stall). The New Haven never owned the line between Fremont and Bay Ridge, it was owned, operated and controlled by the Long Island but it too was maintained for 45 MPH freight operation except through the East New York Tunnel where we could run 35 MPH. Between Fremont and Bay Ridge was manual block although there were some distant switch signals, a set of home signals for the tunnel and of course the interlocking at Fremont which was also a Long Island operation. The ownership post was at the east limit of the interlocking at Fremont. Operations were by signal indicatons except eastbound out of Bay Ridge where the concuctor or engineer would call Fremont for the block and a "K" card would be issued for the condition of the block. Westbound there was a manual block signal just west of the west limit of the interlocking at Fremont and that would be the authority for operating to Bay Ridge with the current of traffic. Getting back to the current situation I am somewhat surprised that CSX hasn't seen fit to upgrade this trackage giving the importance of a rail interchange with the Long Island but then, I don't run the CSX and I guess they have bigger irons in their fires.
Noel Weaver

I can remember seeing in a 1965 LIRR timetable special instruction stating that trains coming from Bayridge must receive an A card from NU ( New Ultrect*) tower. I read in several publications that LIRR had the local switching rights along the Bayridge. NY NH& H had road freight service. LIRR had a decent size yard based in New lots near East New York for locals.

freightguy wrote:I can remember seeing in a 1965 LIRR timetable special instruction stating that trains coming from Bayridge must receive an A card from NU ( New Ultrect*) tower. I read in several publications that LIRR had the local switching rights along the Bayridge. NY NH& H had road freight service. LIRR had a decent size yard based in New lots near East New York for locals.

The only tower was at Fremont. NU was a Block Limit Station and we would get a "K" card over the telephone from the operator at Fremont in order to pass NU. The Long Island Rail Road owned the Bay Ridge Branch (and the Pennsylvania Railroad owned the Long Island). When the PRR sold the LIRR to the state of New York in the early 60's they held on to the Bay Ridge Branch and this trackage continued to be operated by the Long Island. The New Haven simply had trackage rights over the Long Island Rail Road between Fremont and Bay Ridge. After Penn Central took over the New Haven many things changed with regard to the Fremont - Bay Ridge trackage and it ended up being operated by Penn Central (former New Haven) employees not only at Fremont tower but all of the local freight business as well as maintenance (what little there was by this time). It was all downhill after the start of 1969. It was simply a route that the Penn Central did not need or want for through freight service as they had a better and more efficient route via Selkirk.
Noel Weaver

Mr Weaver,You can add the Poughkeepsie Bridge fire(Maybrook line) to the list as well,ALL freight headed to the Island
run thru Selkirk,or floats over from Greenville NJ.

The Poughkeepsie Bridge was a horse of a different color. The Penn Central could have used that bridge but they did not want to cut the Lehigh & Hudson River in on the operation and the only other railroad involved in Maybrook in 1974 was the Erie Lackawanna and Penn Central was not interested in a good route to New England for a competitor and that was what the EL was at the time. The EL interchange was moved to Utica and the Lehigh & Hudson River was pretty much left out in the cold with just their local business to keep them going. Even if the fire had not occurred in 1974 the Poughkeepsie Bridge would not have survived the various cuts that took place especially after Conrail came on the scene. The freilght business was going down the drain all over Southern New England and what little bit remained still could be handled by the Boston & Albany and to the north the Boston & Maine both of which had better routes than the Maybrook Line.
Noel Weaver

Not the best shot but...
here is the P&W stone train moving north over Hell Gate Bridge.
Missed the engines...

Saw the Providence and Worcester stone train
4 engines 3 where in Providence and Worcester colors and 1 was 9014
Started counting till 1590 showed up at Rowayton
Ended with 33 must have been at least another 10 or so
Headed southbound at a good I must say 50-55 mph

fl9m2004 wrote: Headed southbound at a good I must say 50-55 mph

They might have appeared to be moving at that speed but I would bet a fortune that they were NOT.
Noel Weaver