China to Build Two High-Speed Railways - Why Not Amtrak?

badneighbor wrote:China is run by a dictator who is not held responsible by the voting population..

According to most journalists in Europe, so is the US... :-/

Europe's headed in the totalitarian direction, so they ought not talk.

As for China, they're more oligarchic than anything else.

More than mere coincidence that countries with HSR are creditor nations and countries without are debtor nations...?

USRailFan wrote:

badneighbor wrote:China is run by a dictator who is not held responsible by the voting population..

According to most journalists in Europe, so is the US... :-/

...said journalists must not be cognizant of the definition of 'dictator' nor the term 'dictatorship'.

wigwagfan's post is quite accurate. I've met many Chinese government officials here in the U.S., and, after talking with them, I've determined that they have lots of public money to spend, land is cheap, and there are little environmental regulations to stand in the way of building huge capital projects like rail lines, airports and hydro/nuke plants.

Even a cursory review of the economics of petroleum confirms the fact that China cannot hope to develop an automotive-based economy along the standards which evolved in the industrialized world during the late 20th century.

Also, the current, and continuing, surge in the demand for petroleum is driven in part by very small vehichles, such as motor-scooters, which have filled a need for personal transportation in the emerging Indian industrial economy. (They don't use much, but the sheer numbers add up.)

The point being, the desire for the mobility offered by individualized transportation is much greater than the desire for a full-sized auto; furthermore, like the personal computer and cellular telephone, these devices make life a little more difficult for would-be tyrants.

Here's a link to an interesting read:

http://www.hybridcars.com/blogs/power/p ... ion-2-book

On the other side of the coin , In the USA , and other democracies , It appears the govt must take notice of every person who wishes to object to the building of the line . In practice , nimby activity is usually undertaken by the middle to upper income groups , who can afford the time and money to do so . likewise polls that show popular support for rail travel and wish for high speed rail , do not count for much , compared to lobbying by interest groups ,who benefit more from car / plane transport .

Interesting how things change as a nation develops! I recall reading an account by a 19th-century British writer about the ease with which land could be taken for railroad construction in the United States, compared to the situation in Britain. (Can't find it now, might've been Dickens, but somehow it doesn't seem like something he would write.)

taoyue wrote:Interesting how things change as a nation develops! I recall reading an account by a 19th-century British writer about the ease with which land could be taken for railroad construction in the United States, compared to the situation in Britain. (Can't find it now, might've been Dickens, but somehow it doesn't seem like something he would write.)

The eminent domain laws are still on the books in many (if not most) jurisdictions, and railroads have this right.

However, as the country becomes more populated and more developed, it is becoming more difficult to exercise the right of eminent domain - not only because of the increased number of persons seeking to fight it, but the increased cost in doing so (now that the land is developed, it is worth more). I think the only major railroad eminent domain case going on currently is a coal-hauling route in southeastern Montana/Wyoming, through sparsely populated ranchland.

At least in my neck of the woods, "Property Rights" is the mantra of the day - "I want to do what God gave me the right to do, and I don't care what urban planners or my neighbor thinks!" Ironically, my wife belongs to a Native American tribe, and I could just as well argue that the land belonged to them first but was stolen. (And these same people who want "property rights" are against Native American casinos, sometimes on land they had to buy back at current market value!. Go figure!)

Irish Chieftain wrote:Europe's headed in the totalitarian direction, so they ought not talk.

A rather silly remark.

He said Europe, NOT Britain!

Imminent domain is a perpetual state of affairs in a Totalitarian State, so attaining property for ANY project in the name of "The People" is first priority.

With the olympics coming to China, thrusting it into the world spotlight, they're going to spend their last Yuan to strut their stuff in front of the world. That means new city downtowns, new airports and yes - the worlds most incredible high speed rail system.

It's the Communist mentality to have the biggest in the world. Anyone remember the old Soviet joke;

Have you heard about the new Soviet Microchip??

It's the BIGGEST MICROCHIP IN THE WORLD!

Dieter/

george matthews wrote:

Irish Chieftain wrote:Europe's headed in the totalitarian direction, so they ought not talk.

A rather silly remark.

I take it that you haven't read the EU Constitution?

Dieter wrote:He said Europe, NOT Britain!

Dieter/

Britain is in Europe. That is, European Union rules and Directives apply to us.

The argument about Eminent Domain (called in Britain Compulsory Purchase is a bit daft.

We have managed to build one HS line, on time and in budget, though the financing was dodgy. I hope there will be another line to the North. But there are several lines where large parts are travelled at 125 mph (not genuine high speed).

Probing Question: Why don't we have high-speed trains in the U.S.?

By Lisa Duchene
Research/Penn State

The next time you need to get to New York or Washington, D.C., think how much easier it would be if high-speed trains were as common here as they are in Europe. Such trains would leave every hour and get you to your destination -- even right to the airport -- on time and faster than driving.

Here in the United States, high-speed trains are fantasy, but not in Europe or Japan. Eurostar trains run on the hour, speeding London passengers at up to 186 mph to Paris in about two and a half hours, for about $266 round trip. Trains between Barcelona and Madrid soon will reach 210 mph.

Japan's high-speed trains, the world's first, have linked Tokyo, Nagoya, Kyoto and Osaka since 1964. The shinkansen, or "bullet" trains now reach speeds of more than 186 mph, shuttling riders from Tokyo to Osaka in two and a half hours, for about $120 each way.

Here, Amtrak's Acela Express makes the trip from Washington, D.C., to Boston in about six and a half hours for about $321 round trip. The Acela typically runs at speeds up to 120 to 130 mph and on one short stretch at 150 mph, speeds that make it the fastest train in America but are considered slow by global standards.

Why are we so far behind?...

Research Penn State

Irish Chieftain wrote:

george matthews wrote:

Irish Chieftain wrote:Europe's headed in the totalitarian direction, so they ought not talk.

A rather silly remark.

I take it that you haven't read the EU Constitution?

You will note that it didn't pass the referendum in Netherlands.

Perhaps you will quote what piece of that (not yet passed) constitution makes Europe "totalitarian". That is, where does it set up a dictator with the power to ban political parties and prevent elections?

In my opinion, which you probably don't want, the US has far too little government, with the result that it is impossible to have a proper policy on transport or energy, and carry it out. I don't think the US government structure is capable of planning and delivering a high speed rail network. As the price of petrol rises to $4 dollars a US gallon, you are all going to regret that.