Bill rescinds money for Penn Station

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/newyo ... -headlines

WASHINGTON -- A House committee has quietly stripped away $40 million intended to pay for moving Pennsylvania Station's train service into the historic James A. Farley post office building, allotting the money instead to the East Side Access project.

East Side Access? All the money the MTA has, and they still need more to get LIRR into Grand Central Terminal...?

I'm somewhat glad to see the whole Farley thing de-porkified somewhat, but how about sending that money into NEC infrastructure before the whole thing collapses like a house of cards.

I certainally do not shed any tears over that, think the whole thing is a big
waste of money.
There are a number of ways that those funds can be better spent.
The present station serves its purpose and in my opinion is adequate.
Hope this will bury this stupid plan once and for all.
Noel Weaver

I used to support the Moynihan Station Project, and some part of me still wants to. However, I came into Penn Station from Washington a week ago and as we were pulling up to the platform I realized that the platforms roughly begin at Eighth Avenue making it almost impossible to effectively connect the new Concourse in Farley to the platforms. Also there needs to be extensive work done underground. I believe that one day New York should get a grander rail entrance, but there so much more needs to be done first. For example they should rework the trackage so any train from anywhere can go to any track. That would improve operational flexibility manyfold. The airport feel of Penn Station may not aesthetically pleasing, but it does get the job done in terms of being a place to wait for your train or prepare for your departure. Plus, it does seem unfair to make Amtrak pay to be in this new building when there really is little incentive to be across Eighth Avenue. I also feel that even though its only a few hundred yards away. The Post Office seems too far off the beaten path for most people. EVen with this Hudson Yards Football Project, which I think will not be the boon every politician said it will be, it just too far away from everything. Plus as somebody said once, there are rumblings about MSG, like every other sports venue, moving too. If it did, tear it down or better yet gut it and use it for the new station as a reminder of how foolish we once were to let a great treasure like Penn Station fall.
Also, a question, are there more levels to Penn Station than before. If so, which is the original level. The Amtrak or NJ TRansit level? It seems like they just built the Amtrak level on top of the original one and that's how the escalators got there alone with the Brass Staircases being on the lower level. Please clarify.

I believe that one day New York should get a grander rail entrance

Well, there is GCT...but the proposed tunnel connection between the PRR main and GCT's lower level that the "Access to the Region's Core" project used to support is off the table, seemingly for good.

Here the real deal, i.e. my dream.

1. Dolan wants a new Garden. Build it using air rights over the open pit behind the P.O. at Ninth Ave.

2. Tear down the existing Garden.

3. Build new Penn Station where old one stood. Incorporate Two Penn Plaza into complex.

I have a better deal, who really cares about Madison Square Garden?
Put the money in bridges, overhead wires, signals, equipment and track.
Leave Penn Station as it is, not very fancy but very functional. If it is not
broke, don't fix it.
Noel Weaver

Amen

A first class station and top notch infrastructure shouldn't have to be an either/or proposition.

I agree that both should be done, but you can run high-quality train service with spartan stations. You cannot with spartan tracks.

LI Loco wrote:A first class station and top notch infrastructure shouldn't have to be an either/or proposition.

Shouldn't have to be, but is. Well...depending on the winds of funding, it could even be neither/nor.

Besides, who owns the air rights above Penn Station? Would they want to turn MSG into a train station?

Well, there is GCT...but the proposed tunnel connection between the PRR main and GCT's lower level that the "Access to the Region's Core" project used to support is off the table, seemingly for good.

I am surprised there are no proposals to run trains through New York from the New Jersey direction to points east and north.

There would be many gains from trains not having to terminate in the central station. Thus the New Jersey system and the MTA and LIRR ought to merge, or at least use the same trains.

For examples see the Paris RER system and in London the Thameslink system. The latter uses a tunnel that for many years was abandoned. It replaced two terminating systems and also opened up stations in the central area.

Through-running? Takes more than just getting over the politics, of course. Metro-North, NJT and LIRR use quite different electrification systems. That would be an even larger capital investment.

The Arrow III's could run trough to Stamford and the M series cars could run tru to Trenton. it would cut down on slots used in Penn station

Irish Chieftain wrote:Through-running? Takes more than just getting over the politics, of course. Metro-North, NJT and LIRR use quite different electrification systems. That would be an even larger capital investment.

London Thameslink uses two electrification systems. Roughly, north of the Thames trains use overhead 25 kv AC and south they use surface contact 750v dc. Trains can change systems on the move where necessary (as on the West London line) or at a station, Farringdon on Thameslink.

The advantage is no terminal time, no change of ends for the drivers, and one set of vehicles can be used on two systems.

In London it was possible because both ends of the line belonged to the same organisation: British Rail, network South East business. Quite possibly it could not have been done by the fragmented privatised arrangements operating at present.