Bill rescinds money for Penn Station

On my recent visit to New York, I spent a good deal of time at Penn Station. While the current configuration is certainly utilitarian, it was nowhere near as dreary as I remembered from a previous visit in 1985 or so. I think the station's biggest non-operational problem is that is suffers from the memory of it's predecessor and the beauty of it's former cross-town rival. The worst thing I noticed about it was the totally unworkable Seventh Avenue Entrance.

I found it interesting also how it seems to mimic the footprint of the old station (from what I can tell from looking at pictures - it was gone before I was born) The long arcade, the step down into the eliptical "main lobby" (or whatever that area is called) the waiting room, and then the concourse.

With the development of the Chelsea area, and the west side in general, the Farley station idea seems like it would be plausible - particulary if it could be joined underground with the existing complex. However, if it is a choice between spending money on that or spending money on addressing maintenance backlogs in the NEC, the money needs to go to maintenance.

Actually, the general layout of Penn Station has not changed that much,
the concourse while it no longer has the high steel girders and openness
of old, is now well lighted, warm in the winter and cool in the summer and
one can actually understand the announcements.
In my opinion and I have stated it here previously, the present Penn
Station is better than the old Penn Station for the passenger. I well
remember the old one and I never really cared for its facilities as a user.
I can't believe that New York State is still pushing for that other
monstrosity (hope I spelled that correctly) to act as a station or whatever.
It would be a gross waste of money but then again, New York is somewhat
famous for wasting money on un-needed railroad projects while
neglecting the legitimate needs of railroad travelers.
This project needs to be "PUT TO SLEEP", for all time, the present station
does its job.
Noel Weaver

You guys will enjoy this:

http://auto-free.org/regionps.html

Gilbert B Norman wrote:Yesterday's New York Times had an "update" article...I don't think any new ground has been broken here:

I agree with you - the article rehashes the "correcting an urban tragedy" (the original Penn Station destruction") and artwork and urban feel and so on - not really covering the fact that the currently Penn Station/MSG combo is just plan very efficent.
I say just leave it alone, give the money geared for the station to help tunnels safety and evacuation infrastructure, and let's get on with life...

The following movie is currently making rounds of several Starz TV movie channels:

The Killer That Stalked New York
Director: EARL MCEVOY 1950
Synopsis: New York is looking for a smallpox-carrying diamond smuggler who is looking for her cheating husband..
Copyright:
Cast: EVELYN KEYES, CHARLES KORVIN, WILLIAM BISHOP

www.starz.com

The first five minutes contain live footage at "Old Penn".

N.Y. State Of Mind wrote:You guys will enjoy this:

http://auto-free.org/regionps.html

All the proposals in that document are standard practice in most European large cities. Through running to a central station is an essential means of increasing productivity. Even London, which has numerous terminal stations, showed huge gains when a disused tunnel was opened up to provide a north-south service connecting the overhead systems of the north London and the third rail system of South London. It has been immensely busy ever since it was opened.

There are two Hudson River tunnels and four East River tunnels going into Penn Station, which has 21 tracks and 11 platforms. If your objective is to increase capacity at Penn Station, you need to first identify the constraints. As far as NJT and Amtrak are concerned, it is the Hudson tunnels that are the constraint.

The picture is worth a thousand words.

Noel Weaver wrote:I have a better deal, who really cares about Madison Square Garden?
Put the money in bridges, overhead wires, signals, equipment and track.
Leave Penn Station as it is, not very fancy but very functional. If it is not
broke, don't fix it.
Noel Weaver

I agree with Mr. Weaver

AmtrakFan

Lucius Kwok wrote:There are two Hudson River tunnels and four East River tunnels going into Penn Station, which has 21 tracks and 11 platforms. If your objective is to increase capacity at Penn Station, you need to first identify the constraints. As far as NJT and Amtrak are concerned, it is the Hudson tunnels that are the constraint.

I believe the biggest misconception aobut Penn Station revolves around its commuter service coming from New Jersey. Penn Station from the west was really never designed for heavy duty commuter service. Thats why the Pennsylvania Railroad had its Exchange Place Station in Jersey City with connecting ferry service.

It is going to be some time...if ever......before any additional Hudson River tubes will be built. I would rather see consideration being made to enhancing the Hudson River Terminals in New Jersey, with modernized and improved ferry service to Manhattan...This way you'll have less congestion trying to get trains into and out of Penn Station.

MINOR EDITORIALIZING: I am of the opinion that one of the worst mistakes the New Jersey DOT ever made was allowing the discontinuance of Jersey Central's Jersey City Terminal. What could be a usable 20-track terminal exists only as an underutilized museum piece in Liberty State Park.

Interesting article

http://www.observer.com/pages/frontpage2.asp

Here's a "brief passage":

Now, however, the national railroad service is in dire financial straits, and the company’s cost-cutting new president, David Gunn, has said he won’t pay the costs associated with the move—neither in renovation expenses nor in annual lease payments for the space.

Another "tear jerk" article.
David Gunn is absolutely right, Amtrak does not need and would not
benefit from a move out of their present Penn Station.
New York is great for cosmetic stuff such as fancy stations, turbo trains
that do not run properly and un-needed new facilities and not as good
when it comes to track, signals and other needed improvements.
I hope Amtrak holds their ground on this gross waste of money.
I don't care if the funds are already in place, if they haven't been spent
yet, then they should not be wasted here.
Noel Weaver

And there is no reason for LIRR or NJ Transit to move across the street. It would become an inconvenience for most riders. This white elephant is another screw-up of the Pataki administration, which has become the worst state government in the country.

<i>This white elephant is another screw-up of the Pataki administration, which has become the worst state government in the country</i>

Well, only after Rowland & Co. left CT.

The only problem is, whenever Pataki gets up for re-election, he tosses a part of NY a quickie break to get back in. Of course, now we're stuck with such things as LIPA, the DE/DM equipment, bizzare and illogical transit plans for NYC, a death penalty that's useless and unused, the Turbo fiasco, etc.

And the stupid voters fall for it