Amtrak Vermonter / Montrealer

According to the Amtrak Service Alert, the shutdown of the Vermonter service is not for a solid 3 months, but for 7 to 14 day periods in the 3 months:

Northbound Trains 54 and 56
On the dates shown below, beginning June 17 through September 17, Trains 54 and 56, which normally operate from Washington to St. Albans, will terminate at Springfield. Motorcoach service will be provided between Springfield, St. Albans and all intermediate stations except Claremont, NH, and Windsor, VT.

Trains 54 and 56 Service Change Dates
Friday, June 17 through Monday, June 27, 2011 Wednesday,
July 6 through Wednesday, July 20, 2011 Wednesday,
July 27 through Wednesday, August 20, 2011 Wednesday, [The Aug 20 is likely a typo, Aug 10 makes more sense]
August 17 through Wednesday, August 31, 2011
Wednesday, September 7 through Saturday, September 17, 2011

Southbound Trains 55 and 57
On the dates shown below, Trains 55 and 57, which normally operate from St. Albans to Washington, will originate in Springfield. Motorcoach service will be provided between St. Albans, Springfield and all intermediate stations except Windsor and Claremont.

Trains 55 and 57 Service Change Dates
Saturday, June 18 through Tuesday, June 28, 2011
Thursday, July 7 through Thursday, July 21, 2011
Thursday, July 28 through Thursday, August 11, 2011
Thursday, August 18 through Thursday, September 1, 2011
Thursday, September 8 through Sunday, September 18, 2011

Adding up the days blocked off, I get 62 days, so the Vermonter train will be runing to St. Albans for around 1/3 of the 3 month period.

So this track work is supposed to raise the speeds to 79 mph south of White River Junction and 59 mph (is that actually raising the speed or just rebuilding the track to the same standards?) north of White River, yes?

That's what I gather, largely. Currently its 50-59 from Brattleboro, northward, with slow orders here n' there. This work will most likely eradicate most of them, plus with all welded rail being laid, the ride will be much smoother. 59 MPH is the max north of WRJ because of lack of signals, but between WRJ and Brattleboro, there is signalling so it can go up to 79 MPH.

The "Conn River Line" rebuild in Massachusetts has not yet started, unfortunately. The rumor is that Pan-Am is busy with other track projects on their lines (Brunswick extension of the Downeaster and upgrades to their E/W line in Mass), not to mention other projects. So they are stretched pretty thin right now. And not sure about private rail construction companies, but they're also pretty busy with other projects, including the Vermont upgrades. I sure hope the work on the Conn River starts next year *at the latest* as that will be the single biggest improvement to the Vermonter in its history. Then we may just see a second roundtrip to WRJ, a whole new schedule, and the state of Vermont's priority in rail travel is getting the train to Montreal.

If I hear anything on the Conn River Line rebuild, I'll post it. Otherwise, check here or on the Pan-Am Railways forum on this site for any updates if/when available.

shadyjay wrote: Then we may just see a second roundtrip to WRJ, a whole new schedule, and the state of Vermont's priority in rail travel is getting the train to Montreal.

Please tell me more about this second round trip, is this anything more then just a rumor? where would it round trip from to WRJ ?

BigLou80 wrote:

shadyjay wrote: Then we may just see a second roundtrip to WRJ, a whole new schedule, and the state of Vermont's priority in rail travel is getting the train to Montreal.

Please tell me more about this second round trip, is this anything more then just a rumor? where would it round trip from to WRJ ?

The MA State Rail Plan released in September 2010 calls for 6 additional daily round trips between Springfield and Greenfield MA and 1 additional daily trip all the way to St. Albans, VT. The plan for the additional daily trips to Greenfield is probably to extend the NHV-SPG shuttles with an expansion of the shuttle trains. Where the additional train to St. Albans or White River Junction would originate is not stated, my guess it is a TBD. Amtrak's limited supply of additional single level cars may delay much of this service expansion, although if the order of bi-levels funded for the mid-West are delivered, maybe some of the Horizons would end up going to New England. The MA State Rail Plan can be found at http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Transit/ ... _rail.aspx

shadyjay wrote:The "Conn River Line" rebuild in Massachusetts has not yet started, unfortunately. The rumor is that Pan-Am is busy with other track projects on their lines (Brunswick extension of the Downeaster and upgrades to their E/W line in Mass), not to mention other projects. So they are stretched pretty thin right now. And not sure about private rail construction companies, but they're also pretty busy with other projects, including the Vermont upgrades. I sure hope the work on the Conn River starts next year *at the latest* as that will be the single biggest improvement to the Vermonter in its history. Then we may just see a second roundtrip to WRJ, a whole new schedule, and the state of Vermont's priority in rail travel is getting the train to Montreal.

Besides the track work, MA would want to have the new stations in Northampton and Greenfield open before they would start service over the rebuilt corridor. The new stations may take a while to get built. The MA State Rail Plan from last September projected for service to begin over the re-routed corridor in October 2012, but that date may have been based on track work starting in 2011. It will be interesting to see what the faster trip times and a 2nd daily train will do for the ridership numbers for the stations in VT.

Thinking a little further about a 2nd daily train, at least as far as goong to White River Junction. Is there information about what the major city pairs are for people taking the Vermonter north of SPG? Are most of the passengers from VT taking the Vermonter to NHV, NYP, or south of NYP? If NYP is the main destination, the 2nd daily train could originate in NYP which would provide greater scheduling flexibility for it.

afiggatt wrote: Thinking a little further about a 2nd daily train, at least as far as goong to White River Junction. Is there information about what the major city pairs are for people taking the Vermonter north of SPG? Are most of the passengers from VT taking the Vermonter to NHV, NYP, or south of NYP? If NYP is the main destination, the 2nd daily train could originate in NYP which would provide greater scheduling flexibility for it.

Here's a link to a set of factsheets at the NARP website:http://www.narprail.org/cms/images/uplo ... /index.htm If you click on Vermonter under the "Trains" column, it's clear that NYP is the main destination for Vermont riders. There are also separate factsheets for each station.

Any discussion of the 2nd round trip also needs to be looked at in perspective of the Knowledge Corridor, the term used for the cities on the CT River.

http://www.massdot.state.ma.us/knowledgecorridor/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_Corridor

The theory behind the second roundtrip was that with the more direct route through Massachusetts and reduced trip times, another train would be added as far as White River Jct. I believe it came about when the state of Vermont was looking to purchase DMUs to replace locomotive-hauled consists. There is no longer any producer of DMUs, plus the idea of DMUs did not set well with many riders, since it would have required passengers to transfer at New Haven.

What would make most sense would be to add a NYP-SPG-WRJ train and take the Vermonter and terminate it at Union Station in Burlington. But hey, at this point, I'll just be happy to get the Vermonter back on the Conn River in Massachusetts.

shadyjay wrote:But hey, at this point, I'll just be happy to get the Vermonter back on the Conn River in Massachusetts.

That's key. It's an "if you build it they will come" thing, which is why it's a smidge justified to be impatient with PAR's nonexistent track crews. The uncorked demand is already there on the whole corridor north of SPR, and state of VT is already gung ho. Just get the Conn River Line operating at full speed and the ridership will be off to the races making more trains and a couple twists on the service configurations inevitable. I don't know if it's got quite as bullish a growth curve as the Downeaster yet until it actually gets linked back up to Montreal sometime in the future, but it's gonna be a similarly nifty success story like the DE and acting as a squeaky wheel for additional investment within a decade's time.


I can't see DMU's being useful here. The station spacing is nowhere near the payoff point to make that worth doing. It's still regional rail, not commuter rail. The only place outside of MNRR in New England where DMU's make a little sense are MBTA short-turns to beef up the headways on the inner half and Route 128-focused part of its commuter rail...oddly a little more underserved by park-and-rides than the outer I-495 belt. But if CDOT NHHS rail doesn't even meet that density/station spacing trigger where DMU's become an interesting option, then VT is a far far cry below even that. Think there's a whole lot of better service initiatives they could be pushing with far greater real-world impact, such as just more trains period and getting into some serious and substantive long-term talks with Quebec about going to Montreal.

afiggatt wrote: Amtrak's limited supply of additional single level cars may delay much of this service expansion, although if the order of bi-levels funded for the mid-West are delivered, maybe some of the Horizons would end up going to New England.

Aren't the Horizons the ones that have the habit of freezing up each winter? I know one or two occasionally make their way onto the Vermonter, but perhaps a train full of them is not the best idea during the winter?

gprimr1 wrote:Any discussion of the 2nd round trip also needs to be looked at in perspective of the Knowledge Corridor, the term used for the cities on the CT River.

Yes, it is safe to assume that additional trains won't be added to the Vermonter route until after the upgrade and re-route to the Knowledge Corridor is done with the new station stops and after the track improvements in VT are either entirely or mostly complete with the 55 minutes of projected trip time improvements north of Springfield.

The question is whether VT and MA will wait until some of the double track work on the New Haven to Springfield corridor is done to get some trip time improvements in place. The website for the NHHS corridor project has 2016 as the launch date for the new commuter service, so that is presumably the year for completion of the double tracking and track upgrades. VT and MA probably won't want until that long - if Amtrak has enough equipment available.

There is also the issue of the bridge and catenary work on the New Haven line that it down to 2 tracks. Until the line is back to 4 tracks, Metro-North may be very reluctant to allow additional Amtrak trains to run to New Haven. Not sure when the current bridge work on the NHV line is supposed to be done.

eagle628 wrote:

afiggatt wrote: Amtrak's limited supply of additional single level cars may delay much of this service expansion, although if the order of bi-levels funded for the mid-West are delivered, maybe some of the Horizons would end up going to New England.

Aren't the Horizons the ones that have the habit of freezing up each winter? I know one or two occasionally make their way onto the Vermonter, but perhaps a train full of them is not the best idea during the winter?

Yes, Amtrak even discusses the operational problems with the Horizons and their preference to relocate them to a more suitable environment in their Fleet Strategy Plan. The problem is that there are not any southern states calling Amtrak up to start or expand corridor service at the moment. So, unless new single level cars are ordered and delivered before expanded Amtrak service starts on the New Haven to Springfield to Greenfield MA corridor, Horizons may be what is available, Or maybe Amtrak will have enough Amfleets to use.

There might be a way to utilize the existing shuttle train sets since I think they keep two in Springfield and aren't needed during the mid-day.