AMTRAK'S ALC-42'S and ALC-42E'S paint scheme questio +question about where the new ALC-42'S operate

RandallW wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:27 pm The ALC-42s are operating on Silver Service trains, but seem to always be in the trailing position (I presume this will be until all crews on those routes are trained and qualified to operate them).

I assumed that it was for several reasons:
- Crew training and qualification
- Lack of approval to lead on CSS-equipped roads (although the RF&P won’t be that way for much longer)
- Mileage accumulation with HEP loads attached
- Mileage accumulation in multiple working configuration(s) (does the ALC-42 link up properly with the rest of the Amtrak motive power fleet?)

I have seen many NEC services pass through Ashland on the Virtual Railfan livestream with an ALC-42 trailing behind a P40/42. I haven’t seen an ALC-42 on the Auto Train yet.

Just observed #321 and 322 at West Palm handling either 91(27) or 97(27); don't know which.

Riding North from Miami on Tri Rail, I observed one Amtrak Southbound, but, again, I don't know which was which.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 4:53 pm Just observed #321 and 322 at West Palm handling either 91(27) or 97(27); don't know which.

Riding North from Miami on Tri Rail, I observed one Amtrak Southbound, but, again, I don't know which was which.

It was 91(27). Must of been early to West Palm Beach.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:44 pm

RandallW wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:04 am ...

I did a watch and put summary notes here. Relevant section:

• Cascades service to get Airo's first by 2026 with 8 D-config trainsets. (All diesel)
• Regional (all but 66/67 Night Owl) next with 32 B-2's between 2026-2029. (Longer diesel w/electric booster)
• Keystone/Veromonter/Pennsylvanian/Carolinian/Palmetto/Downeaster/Night Owl with 26 B-1's 2029-2030. (Shorter diesel w/electric booster)
• Empire Service/Ethan Allen Express/Maple Leaf/Adirondack with 17 C's 2023-2031. (Diesel w/battery booster for getting into NY Penn)

The highlighted parts are incorrect. It's not an Electric booster but an fully electric powered ICT . Where the electricity from the catenary is fed (with the panthographs) to the HEP inverters, traction motor's and other electric systems. The Diesel engine is shut off when running in electric mode like an NJ ALP-45DP.

For the batterie - diesel ICT, i don't know. I know that when around NY Penn the diesel engine is cut off and the train is running on the batteries, but i don't know if HEP is provided in Penn or only basic lights.
Outside NY Penn the batteries are helping the diesel engine with starting an train and braking will charge the batteries

SRich wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 3:59 pm The highlighted parts are incorrect. It's not an Electric booster but an fully electric powered ICT . Where the electricity from the catenary is fed (with the panthographs) to the HEP inverters, traction motor's and other electric systems. The Diesel engine is shut off when running in electric mode like an NJ ALP-45DP.

For the batterie - diesel ICT, i don't know. I know that when around NY Penn the diesel engine is cut off and the train is running on the batteries, but i don't know if HEP is provided in Penn or only basic lights.
Outside NY Penn the batteries are helping the diesel engine with starting an train and braking will charge the batteries

Yes, it would in detail work that way. But "fully electric powered ICT" is a misnomer. It'll work in most cases *as* one but it's a diesel-electric ICT in which the diesel side is cut out until needed.

That said, scuttlebutt around some Amtrak circles is that the battery-diesel ICT's been silently dropped for diesel/electric.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 7:13 am

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 4:53 pm Just observed #321 and 322 at West Palm handling either 91(27) or 97(27); don't know which.

Riding North from Miami on Tri Rail, I observed one Amtrak Southbound, but, again, I don't know which was which.

It was 91(27). Must have been early to West Palm Beach.

It's been a day since I made this observation; if there remains any question regarding what train it was, the consist as I best recall was, in addition to the noted ALC-42's, was 3 A-2 Coaches, TWO VL Diners, 2 VL Sleepers, V-Bagg, and one (presumably DH) A-2 Coach.

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 8:06 pm That said, scuttlebutt around some Amtrak circles is that the battery-diesel ICT's been silently dropped for diesel/electric.

I hope that rumor is correct.
The battery - diesel IMO was a poor idea. It was almost an attempt for NY state to get Amtrak back into GCT in the future, The diesel = electric will be much more useful in the future if the west side line starts getting CAT extended north from NYP. They will give the same acceleration as a battery electric. As well it will be easy to install some station storage tracks with short sections of CAT to allow diesels not to idle except in cold weather.

Then those units can be reversed at NYP to allow for thru Albany <> NYP <> Wash trains. As an extreme unlikely example try operating on 280's schedule to NYP with it becoming the Crescent on to NOL. Finally, a thru train from NY state thru Carolinas, GA, & NOL.

west point wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:17 am I hope that rumor is correct.
The battery - diesel IMO was a poor idea. It was almost an attempt for NY state to get Amtrak back into GCT in the future, The diesel = electric will be much more useful in the future if the west side line starts getting CAT extended north from NYP. They will give the same acceleration as a battery electric. As well it will be easy to install some station storage tracks with short sections of CAT to allow diesels not to idle except in cold weather.

Then those units can be reversed at NYP to allow for thru Albany <> NYP <> Wash trains. As an extreme unlikely example try operating on 280's schedule to NYP with it becoming the Crescent on to NOL. Finally, a thru train from NY state thru Carolinas, GA, & NOL.

While I am not a huge supporter of battery powered trains over long distances, this distance is so short it brings up why batteries were not used in the past? I assume costs and available mass produced technology were prohibited in the past, which are now available at fairly competitive price.
Which brings up another question that might answer why Amtrak chose batteries this time to enter Penn Sta from the north. The question is, who owns that west side rail corridor?

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 8:06 pm

SRich wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 3:59 pm The highlighted parts are incorrect. It's not an Electric booster but an fully electric powered ICT . Where the electricity from the catenary is fed (with the panthographs) to the HEP inverters, traction motor's and other electric systems. The Diesel engine is shut off when running in electric mode like an NJ ALP-45DP.

For the batterie - diesel ICT, i don't know. I know that when around NY Penn the diesel engine is cut off and the train is running on the batteries, but i don't know if HEP is provided in Penn or only basic lights.
Outside NY Penn the batteries are helping the diesel engine with starting an train and braking will charge the batteries

Yes, it would in detail work that way. But "fully electric powered ICT" is a misnomer. It'll work in most cases *as* one but it's a diesel-electric ICT in which the diesel side is cut out until needed.

I get your point

That said, scuttlebutt around some Amtrak circles is that the battery-diesel ICT's been silently dropped for diesel/electric.

I hope soo. In the Amtrak ICT topic, i have already posted that the Battery - Diesel ICTs doens't make any sense when you have catenary hanging. Electro - Diesel ICT al the way.

west point wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:17 am

STrRedWolf wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 8:06 pm That said, scuttlebutt around some Amtrak circles is that the battery-diesel ICT's been silently dropped for diesel/electric.

I hope that rumor is correct.
The battery - diesel IMO was a poor idea. It was almost an attempt for NY state to get Amtrak back into GCT in the future, The diesel = electric will be much more useful in the future if the west side line starts getting CAT extended north from NYP. They will give the same acceleration as a battery electric. As well it will be easy to install some station storage tracks with short sections of CAT to allow diesels not to idle except in cold weather.

If that is the case why not just give the APV and ALC42E third rail pickup shoes. Much cheaper, more reliable and Amtrak can use Penn and Grand Central Terminal

Then those units can be reversed at NYP to allow for thru Albany <> NYP <> Wash trains. As an extreme unlikely example try operating on 280's schedule to NYP with it becoming the Crescent on to NOL. Finally, a thru train from NY state thru Carolinas, GA, & NOL.

That could be an option.....

electricron wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:06 am

west point wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 1:17 am I hope that rumor is correct.
The battery - diesel IMO was a poor idea. It was almost an attempt for NY state to get Amtrak back into GCT in the future, The diesel = electric will be much more useful in the future if the west side line starts getting CAT extended north from NYP. They will give the same acceleration as a battery electric. As well it will be easy to install some station storage tracks with short sections of CAT to allow diesels not to idle except in cold weather.

Then those units can be reversed at NYP to allow for thru Albany <> NYP <> Wash trains. As an extreme unlikely example try operating on 280's schedule to NYP with it becoming the Crescent on to NOL. Finally, a thru train from NY state thru Carolinas, GA, & NOL.

While I am not a huge supporter of battery powered trains over long distances, this distance is so short it brings up why batteries were not used in the past? I assume costs and available mass produced technology were prohibited in the past, which are now available at fairly competitive price.
Which brings up another question that might answer why Amtrak chose batteries this time to enter Penn Sta from the north. The question is, who owns that west side rail corridor?

The west side rail corridor aka the Empire connector is owned by Amtrak. As for the battery thing everybody wants to be green as possible instead of thinking it through. Like my question where do put these batteries once they become useless. You can not recycle them, anyway you only need third rail into and out of Penn and it works. Why change? Because it makes the PR look good.

SRich wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:40 am

Then those units can be reversed at NYP to allow for thru Albany <> NYP <> Wash trains. As an extreme unlikely example try operating on 280's schedule to NYP with it becoming the Crescent on to NOL. Finally, a thru train from NY state thru Carolinas, GA, & NOL.

That could be an option.....

How are these units going to be reversed at Penn??? Around the loop at Sunnyside? Are they set up like the electric MUs where its a matter of changing ends? Cab cars?? Asking for a friend.

These will be six car train sets on the regional Empire Service trains.
Siemens diesel locomotive, 1 chair car with batteries instead of pantograph, 4 chair cars, and 1 chair car with cab.
These trains will not have to be turned around because they will have cabs on both ends.
Which chair car will have the business class seats, and which will have a small cafe, I do not know. I assume both will be in the same car isolated on one end of the train. Will it be the battery or cab chair car, I have no idea.

Railjunkie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:01 am

...

How are these units going to be reversed at Penn??? Around the loop at Sunnyside? Are they set up like the electric MUs where its a matter of changing ends? Cab cars?? Asking for a friend.

The new Amtrak Airo ICT train has an cab on each side. So turnaround is just the train driver/engineer shutting down an cab side. Walk to the other side start up the cab, and the train is reversed

electricron wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:21 am These will be six car train sets on the regional Empire Service trains.
Siemens diesel locomotive, 1 chair car with batteries instead of pantograph, 4 chair cars, and 1 chair car with cab.
These trains will not have to be turned around because they will have cabs on both ends.
Which chair car will have the business class seats, and which will have a small cafe, I do not know. I assume both will be in the same car isolated on one end of the train. Will it be the battery or cab chair car, I have no idea.

Chair car?
Each ICT has an ALC42E locomotive, an Auxilery power car( Battery or Pantographs, a transformer. When it is an Electro - Diesel APV then both truck has also traction motors.) but the APV also house the business seats. The 2nd car will be the cafe/food car. And the there are the coach cars (3/5) with an cab coach as last.

electricron wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 11:21 am These will be six car train sets on the regional Empire Service trains.
Siemens diesel locomotive, 1 chair car with batteries instead of pantograph, 4 chair cars, and 1 chair car with cab.
These trains will not have to be turned around because they will have cabs on both ends.
Which chair car will have the business class seats, and which will have a small cafe, I do not know. I assume both will be in the same car isolated on one end of the train. Will it be the battery or cab chair car, I have no idea.

No thanks, I don't like the idea of doing grade crossings at 110mph in a cab car. Fortunately by the time this happens I will be retired or holding a some form of a yard assignment.

Railjunkie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 9:54 pm Fortunately by the time this happens I will be retired or holding a some form of a yard assignment.

As in doing your yard work at home?????