Amtrak Proposes Adding New Service to Scranton

I'm really curious about the upcoming project cost estimate from Amtrak. The NE Pennsy Rail Authority might have under-estimated the cost in its zeal to get a passenger train to Scranton. We'll know later this year and if this project makes Amtrak's list for future service.

I continue to be at a loss how one can hold that NY-Scranton Amtrak service will ever come to pass.

Joe will be long out of office, and those Mercator and Vespucci "connect the dots" folks at Amtrak and the FRA will have also long retired.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Thu Aug 24, 2023 10:13 am I continue to be at a loss how one can hold that NY-Scranton Amtrak service will ever come to pass.

Agree.

Hopefully the results of these “studies” get published and we get some clarity on what lines will and won’t be pursued.

Even with some of the infrastructure problems, Scranton should be up there in terms of the best proposals. They’ve got groups supporting them, it’s just right in terms of length, it’s a fairly size-able population that’s unserved (exactly what connectsus seeks out to rectify), and most importantly, all of the right of way is owned by the states of NJ and Pennsylvania, meaning there is no dealing with class 1 freight operators.

What does underserved mean in this context? Is there really a pressing need for passenger train service between NYC and Scranton, PA? Maybe there is and I'm just not seeing it.

Steamguy73 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 8:24 am .......and most importantly, all of the right of way is owned by the states of NJ and Pennsylvania, meaning there is no dealing with class 1 freight operators.

Point noted, but that in itself does not create public acceptance.

I think all advocate eyes should be focused upon the outcome of the Brightline expansion from West Palm to McCoy (MCO). This involved some thirty miles of new from the ground up ROW. So the level of acceptance must be higher than it need be than, say, the CHI-MSP additional frequency in order to "make book".

Now insofar as the several "from the ground up" initiatives, such as LV-LA Basin, and Dallas-Houston, they are simply "pie in the sky" at this time.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 10:44 am Now insofar as the several "from the ground up" initiatives, such as LV-LA Basin, and Dallas-Houston, they are simply "pie in the sky" at this time.

LV-LA is happening. Brightline West is due to start building soon, I believe they have received (almost) all of the necessary permits and paperwork.

Dallas-Houston probably won't happen due to the grip that automobiles and planes interests have on Texas politically and socially. Southwest Airlines has lobbied against HSR initiatives before, and a large Texas city (I forgot the name) cancelled a mass transit plan that included rail transport, and then used the money that was supposed to go to that, to, of course, add more lanes to the highways.

Bump

CRB wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 9:33 am What does underserved mean in this context? Is there really a pressing need for passenger train service between NYC and Scranton, PA? Maybe there is and I'm just not seeing it.

This has been answered countless times. Crowded roads, colleges along the way, tourist areas and more. If I could travel to Scranton by train, I would. Scranton has awful access to other areas - minimal usable air service (not that I'd promote regional air if there's a rail alternative) - you can't get to and from Scranton by air from many places. Driving is grueling. And buses - I think it would take about 8 hours from where I am. The planned trains are fairly slow, but a lot better than buses.

CRB wrote: ↑Fri Aug 25, 2023 9:33 am What does underserved mean in this context? Is there really a pressing need for passenger train service between NYC and Scranton, PA? Maybe there is and I'm just not seeing it.

There's demand in NYC for access to the Pocono's. I80 is very congested in north east NJ and if people have an opportunity to not have to drive, it will create its own riders. Additionally, with COVID people moved out of the city but kept their jobs. Work From Home is turning hybrid and people would commute on the train if they could from northern PA to NYC or points in between.

There's a few Long Islander's I know that would love to have train access to that area.

Well said!

OK; now I realize that Brightline has opened a thirty mile segment Cocoa-MCO built with (ostensibly) private sector capital and is now operating trains over such. It is further heartening to see that the original segment Miami-WPB, now having been in service for five years, has proven to be more viable than a Disneyland ride charging absurdly low "Tri-Rail level fares. Now, when I "go down" and ride from Boca to get either to Miami or WPB, I find first they no longer charge "Tri Rail fares" and the trains are comfortably full. Of course, I don't think too many from that region are too concerned about what number shows up on their credit card statement for the trip (if they even bother to look at such; after all, it's just paid with an automatic debit). Of course, on either my upcoming January or February trips "down below", I will do a joyride to MCO and return, but it will be just that; a joyride.

Now with this said and the original segment proving to be a commercial success ("jury's still out" on WPB-MCO), will it prove to be a financial success? By such that means the bondholders (reportedly well-connected Floridians) will be paid from the enterprise's till or be bailed out by the State and in which case Brightline will become its "ward" (FL is pro-passenger rail so long as it isn't Amtrak).

All right, enough "off topic" and let's address what we gather here to discuss. Any NY-Scranton service will first need a completed Gateway, which finally looks like "it's gonna happen" and then laying 28 miles of new trackage over a pre-existing right of way, and rebuilding an existing 70 mile FRA Class 2 (with luck) to FRA Class 4.

All of this to serve what - a declining region that can claim for another fourteen months that it was the one-time home of an incumbent POTUS, as well as same for several members here who are rather vocal about their distaste for driving.

Sorry, none of this warrants committing large amounts of public funds to a region that has not seen a scheduled passenger train since pre-A-Day.

So wasn't the decision on whether the service to Scranton was chosen as one of the new corridors supposed to have been announced by now??

Corridor selection announcements by the FRA were to be made in November per a briefing provided to applicants in October, but I think that schedule slipped.

The study for the NYC-Scranton service identified ~20,000 passenger trips a week are made along that corridor that are not served by NJT and the choice needs to be made between more/new highways or rail, which means that if that does not warrant development (either new rail, or expanded or new highways), then no region currently with inadequate transportation deserves any development of any kind (road or rail).

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 6:51 am
All right, enough "off topic" and let's address what we gather here to discuss. Any NY-Scranton service will first need a completed Gateway, which finally looks like "it's gonna happen" and then laying 28 miles of new trackage over a pre-existing right of way, and rebuilding an existing 70 mile FRA Class 2 (with luck) to FRA Class 4.

All of this to serve what - a declining region that can claim for another fourteen months that it was the one-time home of an incumbent POTUS, as well as same for several members here who are rather vocal about their distaste for driving.

Sorry, none of this warrants committing large amounts of public funds to a region that has not seen a scheduled passenger train since pre-A-Day.

Having traveled a lot in the area, I agree you're going to throw a ton of money into something that at least for the immediate future, (like next 50 years), is going to be a huge money pit. BUT-You must remember these ideas that have been discussed for over 40 years provide lots of studies. Studies provide many taxpayer dollars to politically connected consulting firms. Consulting firms can be very generous to helpful politicians during election time. I believe this is what keeps projects like this on the radar for decades.